"ing" Modifier Three Different Versions in OG????

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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am
Kindly look at the following thread please...where hyphen is tested:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/shark-modifi ... 41458.html
Take a look in that thread for my reply. :)
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by goelmohit2002 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:01 am
Thanks Stacey.

Just one minor small query....what about the "ing" modifier "without" comma:

Does it modify:

a) Entire clause.
b) immediately preceding noun.
c) Verb of the clause.
d) or something else :-)

In case it is "immediately preceding noun", then can we drop the modifier from the sentence just as we do for "comma + ing" setup...

i.e. even without "without comma + ing" modifier....should sentence make sense.....

For e.g. Yesterday I went to see "Disney Land" having the distinction of best place on earth.

Here I suppose having is acting as modifier for "Disney Land".....and if we drop "having...." stuff...then also sentence make sense....

Is it the case always...can we always drop the "without comma + ing" modifier ?

I hope I am clear with my doubt...

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by Stacey Koprince » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:18 pm
Hmm. In general, if you don't have a comma, an -ing modifier is acting as a noun modifier, yes. Can we ALWAYS drop it? I hate saying "always" about any grammar rule because it seems like this language always has exceptions! (Okay, that's the one thing I can say "always" seems to be true!)

But, in general on this one, you can assume that a noun followed directly by an -ing (no comma) is a noun modifier set up.

The cat circling the mouse is a tabby. "circling the mouse" modifies "cat."

Note that -ing words can also function in many different ways, though - so that doesn't mean that, if there's no comma, the -ing word is a noun modifier. For instance, the -ing word could be the noun itself.

Playing tennis is fun. The subject here (the noun) is actually the word "playing," not the word "tennis."

or: Swatting flies is fun. Here, it's a little more obvious because "flies" is plural (where "tennis" was singular).
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:23 am
Thanks Stacey !!!!

just one minor query...can you please tell is there a difference between the following two sentences or both mean the same....basically can you please help understand the is there a difference between using
a) noun + that verb
b) or noun + verb"ing" setup....(without comma)

Setence#1
==========
The cat circling the mouse is a tabby

Sentence#2
=========
The cat that is circling the mouse is a tabby

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by Stacey Koprince » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:22 pm
The meaning is the same in both. :)
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:07 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:The meaning is the same in both. :)
Thanks a lot Stacey !!!

Does it mean that the following two are almost always same in GMAT ?

a) noun + that verb
b) or noun + verb"ing" setup....(without comma)

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by goelmohit2002 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:38 am
Hi Stacey,

One small related query....as nowhere I found the same....

Does it the case always that

a) noun + that <modifying phrase>
b) verb + that <independent clause>

There is one question in OG that says that "that in E mistakenly introduces a new independent clause rather than a modifying phrase for powers." After looking at the below question, I checked the same in multiple OG questions....the same seems to be followed in OG...but can you please tell is there some rule such as above ?

If there indeed a rule like above, then is the same followed for all the relative pronouns like which/where etc or the same is applicable for "that" only ?

Question(OG-10, Q222) is as below:

By a vote of 9 to 0, the Supreme Court awarded the Central Intelligence Agency broad discretionary powers enabling it to withhold from the public the identities of its sources of intelligence information.
(A) enabling it to withhold from the public
(B) for it to withhold from the public
(C) for withholding disclosure to the public of
(D) that enable them to withhold from public disclosure
(E) that they can withhold public disclosure of

OA = A

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by goelmohit2002 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:24 pm
Hi Stacey,

Just one small related query...

it is commonly said that "being in general is always wrong in GMAT"...

Can you please tell in which cases, being is correct usage ? How to identify the same ? Also kindly tell does "being" denotes present tense or past tense or it can be used with all tenses ?

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:40 am
a) noun + that verb
b) or noun + verb"ing" setup....(without comma)
First, to clarify, we're talking about the circumstance in which the -ing word is used as an adjective to modify the noun. (As opposed to, say, a possessive noun + gerund, where the gerund itself is functioning as the noun. This construction is considered awkward.)

It really depends upon the setup (as to whether one is correct or both are and whether the meaning is strictly the same). A lot of times, the "noun + -ing" setup is considered more awkward / potentially confusing though, so if you have to guess, go with the "that" option.
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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:43 am
a) noun + that <modifying phrase>
b) verb + that <independent clause>
Aa a general rule, yes. The word "that" has multiple uses (unlike who, which, etc, which pretty much function as relative pronouns).

The woman thought that the cat was cute.
subj verb THAT subj verb obj

There are certain sentence set-ups (and certain verbs) that tend to be structured as the above sentence is structured - subj verb THAT subj verb obj. That entire thing is considered the core sentence.

You can't do the same thing with who or which.

But, "that" can also introduce a modifying phrase, and we'll mostly see that with a noun or noun phrase first, not a conjugated verb.
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by goelmohit2002 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:52 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:(As opposed to, say, a possessive noun + gerund, where the gerund itself is functioning as the noun. This construction is considered awkward.)
Thanks a lot Stacey !!!

Can you please give one example of what you mean to say above ?

Thanks
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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:55 am
it is commonly said that "being in general is always wrong in GMAT"...

Can you please tell in which cases, being is correct usage ? How to identify the same ? Also kindly tell does "being" denotes present tense or past tense or it can be used with all tenses ?
Almost always, yes - but not always. There are 1 or 2 GMATPrep questions that include "being" in the correct answer and I've seen a couple of others over the years.

In general, try the given sentence with and without the word being (if a choice substitutes another word or word form, use that instead). If you have the option, choose the choice that works without the word "being."

BUT, save that kind of consideration for last. Deal with whatever else you can deal with first, and use "being" as a kind of tiebreak. (Same with redundancy / awkwardness.)

"Being" can be used correctly in verb form as a present participle and is often passive when used this way. It can also be used as a gerund. Eg:

She is being recruited by the best team in the league.
The security guard was hired to prevent the jewels from being stolen.

But again - back to what I said before. I do NOT use "being" as a starting point. I deal with everything else first and see whether I have an acceptable option that doesn't use "being." If I only have options left that use "being," then I can forget about debating that particular word. If I have options left that don't use "being," then I prefer one that does not use that word.
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by goelmohit2002 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:07 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:(As opposed to, say, a possessive noun + gerund, where the gerund itself is functioning as the noun. This construction is considered awkward.)
Hi Stacey,

Can you please look at the following link....looks like people are having different opinion....

https://www.beatthegmat.com/gerund-being ... tml#135844

Can you please tell what indeed is the case ?

Thanks
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by vineet0120 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:45 pm
For the farmer who takes care to keep them cool, providing them with high energy feed and milking them regularly,Holstein cows are producing an average of 2275 gallons of milk each year.

A. providing them with high energy feed and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are producing
B. providing them with high energy feed ,and milked regularly, the Holstein cow produces
C. provided with high energy feed, and milking them regularly, Holstein cows are producing
D. provided with high energy feed ,and milked regularly, the Holstein cow produces
E. provided with high energy feed ,and milked regularly, the Holstein cows will produce

OA : E

hi STACEY,
plz clarify
i want to know what is the role of modifier "providing"
The "comma -ing" part/here is clearly providing additional detail about the main clause.

how farmer is taking care of his cows to keep them cool --- by providing them with high---
ANS. SHOULD BE A

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:41 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:
(As opposed to, say, a possessive noun + gerund, where the gerund itself is functioning as the noun. This construction is considered awkward.)


Thanks a lot Stacey !!!

Can you please give one example of what you mean to say above ?
For example:
The cat's running away was a result of the loud, scary noise. "Cat's running" is a possessive noun + gerund. That's awkward.

It would be better to say something like: As a result of the loud, scary noise, the cat ran away.
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