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Register now and save up to $200 Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Free Practice Test & Review How would you score if you took the GMAT Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • Get 300+ Practice Questions 25 Video lessons and 6 Webinars for FREE Available with Beat the GMAT members only code • 5-Day Free Trial 5-day free, full-access trial TTP Quant Available with Beat the GMAT members only code ## Time for GMAT Round 2 This topic has 7 expert replies and 4 member replies eric777 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 01 Nov 2015 Posted: 12 messages #### Time for GMAT Round 2 Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:55 am Hello, I studied for awhile last year, and looking back I realize I did not study well at all, and after a month break without really studying took the GMAT and scored an expected 570. 32Q/35V, a 3 or something on IR, and 6 on the essay. I restarted my studies this January, and have been doing practice problem after practice problem from the OG, including going through the Manhattan GMAT foundations book once at the start of my studies, and once again two weeks ago. I took a practice test at the end of January (Magoosh practice which was not a great practice test) and they rated me a 580, though I believe I have improved since then. I schedule my GMAT for the middle of May, and now I want to focus this last 6 weeks on really improving and I'm looking for some advice. I'm an engineer and work at a fortune 20 company in a technology research position, but I was always more of a C in calculus, while acing other random math courses kind of student. I know I have the aptitude, but my study skills aren't great. Some background: - military veteran -> only reason I'm mentioning it is that this hurt me as I never studied in high school, then 4 years without doing any math and then straight into engineering - I didn't really start studying in college until my last two years, and then even though I was taking all engineering courses I was a mostly A student - never took the ACT/SAT so I never properly developed study skills for tests like the GMAT I'm not sure what else would be applicable. I've noticed people do things like create flash cards or study cards, but I have a poor memory, even for flash cards. Another thing I've noticed is that other test takes have been completing an "error log". I've attempted that, but I don't really know what I'm supposed to get out of it? If I were looking at where my weaknesses were - I marked down what category of problem I'd get incorrect - then it was all over the place. I'd miss something random on a problem that wasn't confusing or anything, and each time I've taken the GMAT (real or practice) I've answered all questions in almost exactly 75 minutes. Any advice/help/encouragement would be appreciated. I'm not looking to go to Stanford or something. I'm interested in Michigan, Berkely, and a couple of other schools in that tier. Thank you! ### GMAT/MBA Expert Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com Elite Legendary Member Joined 23 Jun 2013 Posted: 9320 messages Followed by: 478 members Upvotes: 2867 GMAT Score: 800 Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:16 am Hi eric777, This score shows that you have a pretty good grasp of the 'core' material that is tested by the GMAT. Unfortunately, we can't view this score as accurate because you skipped the IR section. On Test Day, once you factor in the the 'check in' time, 'orientation section' of the Test, Essay, IR and first break, you'll have dealt with about 1.5 hours of activity before you see your first Quant question - and about 3 hours of activity before you see your first Verbal question. These are important aspects of the Test Day that you MUST train for if you want to maximize your performance. By skipping a section, you took a shorter, easier Exam that required less work - so you didn't face any of the endurance/fatigue challenges that you'll face on Test Day. This is meant to say that you really MUST take your CATs in a more rigorous fashion as you continue to study. Now that you have this result, you should plan to do a full review of the Exam. While there are a variety of different things to note (based on the type of Mistake Tracker/Error Log that you're using), here are some standard questions that you will want to answer: In each section, how many questions did you get wrong.... 1) Because of a silly/little mistake? 2) Because there was some math/verbal that you just could not remember how to do? 3) Because the question was too hard? 4) Because you were low on time and had to guess? Defining WHY you're getting questions wrong - and then working to 'fix' whatever needs fixing - is part of what it takes to to hone your skills and score at a higher level. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich _________________ Contact Rich at Rich.C@empowergmat.com eric777 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 01 Nov 2015 Posted: 12 messages Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:39 am Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com wrote: Hi eric777, This score shows that you have a pretty good grasp of the 'core' material that is tested by the GMAT. Unfortunately, we can't view this score as accurate because you skipped the IR section. On Test Day, once you factor in the the 'check in' time, 'orientation section' of the Test, Essay, IR and first break, you'll have dealt with about 1.5 hours of activity before you see your first Quant question - and about 3 hours of activity before you see your first Verbal question. These are important aspects of the Test Day that you MUST train for if you want to maximize your performance. By skipping a section, you took a shorter, easier Exam that required less work - so you didn't face any of the endurance/fatigue challenges that you'll face on Test Day. This is meant to say that you really MUST take your CATs in a more rigorous fashion as you continue to study. Now that you have this result, you should plan to do a full review of the Exam. While there are a variety of different things to note (based on the type of Mistake Tracker/Error Log that you're using), here are some standard questions that you will want to answer: In each section, how many questions did you get wrong.... 1) Because of a silly/little mistake? 2) Because there was some math/verbal that you just could not remember how to do? 3) Because the question was too hard? 4) Because you were low on time and had to guess? Defining WHY you're getting questions wrong - and then working to 'fix' whatever needs fixing - is part of what it takes to to hone your skills and score at a higher level. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich So a few of the questions were because of silly mistakes. For example, the first question was along the lines of there are 4*10^11 starts and 50 million are suns like ours or something along those lines. I did the problem exactly how it should be done, but was off by one factor and got 800 instead of 8000. How do you guard against these types of things? ### GMAT/MBA Expert Bara GMAT Instructor Joined 26 Oct 2008 Posted: 359 messages Followed by: 21 members Upvotes: 55 Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:27 am HI Eric, I encourage you to create and/or tap into systems that already exist so you're not throwing darts blindfolded or reinventing the wheel, and I'd also ask you to really think about whether you're as 'bad off' as you think you are: because likely you're just rusty and need direction. You're not the first veteran or rusty student to embark on GMAT studies. There are various time lines, and examples of 'error logs' here in these posts, but I wonder if you really believe you are, and always have been, out of the loop, why you're not signing up for online, in person group or in person/online tutoring. Courses will give you the kind of structure, direction and materials, that soemone you purport yourself to be would benefit most from Certainly it makes 'good business' sense if you consider your time valuable: employ systems that already exist and have been known to improve student scores. It can be overwhelming, because there are alot of options out there, and certainly those of us here as 'featured experts' have been in the biz for long enough and/or are committed enough to student success that we can provide SOME advice. SOme of my colleagues can point to their resource pages, which might be very helpful, and others can identify more what your issues are, when you tellus more about what's up. This is the transcription of one of our clients who was a veteran which you might find helpful. From MBA Podcaster - - and I'm not sure they're around so much - - their links weren't working, but the name of the podcast had been: Dealing With a Low GMAT Score - MBA Podcaster. Google it. Maybe it's working now. "Let’s turn now to a first year student at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business, Ronald Rolph. Rolph was an infantry officer for the Marine Corp for the past eight years. He shared his personal experience of taking the GMAT with MBA Podcaster, “Initially I bought several of the test prep books just at a local bookstore and went through a few of them. I also took kind of a crash course, like a weekend seminar in Durham, North Carolina near where I was living at the time which provided some insight into the test. I think it gave me a relatively decent overview of the format and some of the types of questions and subject matter that was going to be covered but I really did not have sufficient time to prepare adequately. I was constantly being deployed as an active duty Captain in the Marine Corp, so trying to cram in studying between deployment and while overseas I really didn’t do it justice. So when I took that test initially I really felt that I was under prepared so much so that I actually canceled the scores when the test was over. I really wasn’t comfortable with even recording that score officially because I really didn’t know how to go about attacking the test appropriately and I ran out of time on I think both of the sections, the verbal and the quantitative section. Then after taking that test once it was really kind of a cold bath and a harsh dose of reality where I quickly realized that if I wanted to do well on the GMAT, I really needed to dedicate more time and energy toward preparing sufficiently to do as well as I would have liked on the test. I think because of the unique format of the GMAT being not only academically but psychologically prepared to take the test is a key component to being successful on it.” But Rolph said he was far from being mentally ready for the GMAT the first time he took the test, “As I was taking the test and you know, you see the clock ticking right there on the screen and struggling with the questions kind of a vicious cycle and I really didn’t do anywhere near as well as I had hoped on that initial test. By design the test is supposed to foster that kind of anxiety and make sure that people have adequately prepared and are able to handle those kinds of situations and I guess it just took me accepting the fact that I couldn’t do it on my own that just relying on my own previous academic experiences and my own studying wasn’t going to get me to the score that I really hoped to get. Just going through the books and doing self-study was not going to be enough, that I really needed outside help. I’d been out of school for about seven years at the time so the quantitative aspects in particular among my skills were very rusty.” Rolph contacted a test prep company in New York, (Test Prep New York). Because of his military deployment schedule, Rolph had to cram his test prep course into a single week. The company suggested he come to New York right away to work with a team of tutors who specialize in the GMAT. “I spent exactly a week up in New York City staying with a friend, having daily sessions with both verbal and quantitative tutors as well as going through some of the more intangible aspects of the test preparations, psychological aspect of the test, and confidence, etc., etc. Which really enabled me to go into the test from a much stronger, more confident perspective. And that sort of intangible aspect of the preparation I thought was as important if not maybe more important than the actual hard skills of the sentence correction or the data sufficiency problems on the test.” Rolph explains some of the techniques the test prep company used to help him use to calm his nerves, “Mental exercises, stress reduction routines, breathing, relaxation, mental cues to keep yourself calm during stressful situation specifically as you’re taking the computer based test. And just kind of reinforcing your mental capacity to go about taking that kind of a test and just building your confidence. Initially I was a little bit skeptical, coming from the military background sometimes those sort of touchy feely things sometimes I’m a little adverse to but looking back on it that really was invaluable and I think helped exponentially my performance on the test.” Rolph had only one math class as an undergraduate so he said he was especially unprepared for the quantitative section of the GMAT. “What the tutor did which I thought was really prudent, he kind of gaged my ability level through some initial tests and interactions and we kind of determined that trying to master everything, all of the quantitative content of the GMAT was going to be a loss cause. We would get diminishing returns there was no way we could do that. So he kind of picked and choose some of the most or more important concepts and we sort of conceded the fact that there were going to be some questions on it that were going to be beyond my level that I wasn’t going to be able to get or memorize the formulas for but he focused on some of the more general concepts, some of the more prevalent ones on the test and really reinforced those and just focused on those. And we were able to I think to mutually get me to master those.” The test prep tutors covered the verbal section as well, “Repetition, repetition, and more repetition. She had me get the full GMAT official prep book as well the verbal supplement and do literally every single question in both of those books and really by doing that you start to sense patterns for the questions that they ask you the types of questions they ask and some of the over arching concepts that they really like to test on the GMAT. And she sort of gave me some insight as to how to go about recognizing certain concepts within sentence correction and the reading comprehension and to really pick up on those quickly to save time.” The Saturday after his crash course in New York, Rolph flew back to North Carolina. He took the test on Monday, two days later. “I didn’t cram the day or the night before. I think that can be counterproductive. Just focused more on getting a good night sleep, eating right and make sure I was fresh for test day and really just kind of trying to clear my mind the day before.” I asked Rolph how his experience of taking the test the second time compared to the first time, “It was night and day. In a way it was good because I took it in the same test center so I already knew what it the place looked like, I knew where it was, I was just much more confident and I had a much clearer concept of what to expect and I was as close to fully prepared as I could have been under the time constraints.” Rolph his score wasn’t quite as high as the highest he had gotten on one of his GMAT practice test but, “You know I guess ultimately the proof is in the pudding. I was able to get in to one of the programs that I had been hoping to get into so it did the job.” ALl this to say: your experience is NOT unique, and once you identify WHAT you need to do to improve, you will improve. That's where the log comes in. You can get all fancy pants with the log, but generally, you want to identify the following things: 1. Did you know how to do this, or did you guess - - and get it right, get it wrong 2. Did you not know how to do this, and did you guess - - and get it right, get it wrong 3. Do you understand why you got it right/wrong 4. If you got it wrong, was it a deficiency in content knowledge or strategy 5. If you saw something like it again, could you get it correct Then the vitals: 1. Section 2. Question Number 3. If Math: DS or PS 4. Then the vitals: What 'types" of things were being tested, Ie. Geometry - Triangles - Right Triangle - Question about degrees in a triangle 5. How did you answer the question wrong. Often it's not only important THAT you get a question wrong but HOW you get it wrong. From that you can learn. NOW. In terms of support. There are various options: 1. Online static course - - these you can go at your own pace and your own time. There is varying amounts of support, often by email/text. 2. In person group course - - Varying levels of proficiency. The bigger the program the more likely it's a big-box program with a one-size-fits all model. If you're not looking for 700+ and don't mind going through everytihng that is on the test (incuding things you likely already know), these are great. 3. In person or online tutoring - - This is typically highly customized to your needs, is usually more expensive, but more streamlined and economical in terms of your time. You get what you pay for! Always ask for a bio of the tutor you're working with or the opportunity to have a quick talk with the instructor if your'e calling the tutoring company cold. Since you're planning to take the test mid-may and you're starting out where you are, you can use any of the above as your test-prep option. You can also self-study, but I believe given your background, this will be the most difficult. You can also do a combination of all of them. Something we do for clients is an evaluation, which essentially provides feedback on what you're doing, and what you need to do to improve your score. This feedback would help you decide next steps as well, and if you want more information about this, ping me privately, email or call. SO. Buckle up. Dive deep, and keep us posted on how we can continue to help you. Good Luck! _________________ Bara Sapir, MA, CHt, CNLP Founder/CEO & GMAT Badass Test Prep New York/Test Prep San Francisco Maximize your Score, Minimize your Stress! WORKSHOP:mindflowclass.com BOOK: https://tinyurl.com/TPNYSC TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McA4aqCNS-c ### GMAT/MBA Expert Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com Elite Legendary Member Joined 23 Jun 2013 Posted: 9320 messages Followed by: 478 members Upvotes: 2867 GMAT Score: 800 Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:30 am Hi eric777, I'm hoping that you can provide a bit more information about the work that you've done so far and your plans: 1) When did you take the Official GMAT (from your post, it's implied that you did so in January - but that seems to run counter to the plans that you discussed here: http://www.beatthegmat.com/looking-for-a-little-advice-maybe-words-of-encouragement-t288173.html#762230) 2) When are you planning to apply to Business School? 3) Going forward, how many hours do you think you can consistently study each week? Assuming that your goal score is still 700+, you're going to have to make some significant improvements to how you handle BOTH the Quant and Verbal sections. Continuing to study in the same ways as before will likely lead to the same general score results - so you'll have to make some adjustments to your study routine (and that will likely require that you invest in some new study materials). GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich _________________ Contact Rich at Rich.C@empowergmat.com eric777 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 01 Nov 2015 Posted: 12 messages Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:04 pm Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com wrote: Hi eric777, I'm hoping that you can provide a bit more information about the work that you've done so far and your plans: 1) When did you take the Official GMAT (from your post, it's implied that you did so in January - but that seems to run counter to the plans that you discussed here: http://www.beatthegmat.com/looking-for-a-little-advice-maybe-words-of-encouragement-t288173.html#762230) 2) When are you planning to apply to Business School? 3) Going forward, how many hours do you think you can consistently study each week? Assuming that your goal score is still 700+, you're going to have to make some significant improvements to how you handle BOTH the Quant and Verbal sections. Continuing to study in the same ways as before will likely lead to the same general score results - so you'll have to make some adjustments to your study routine (and that will likely require that you invest in some new study materials). GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich Hi Rich, Sorry I'm just now getting back to this thread. I took a week off because I felt burnt out and I needed to refocus - so that meant avoiding all GMAT related topics until I could settle down. I took the official GMAT last April. I took a practice test this past January. I have my upcoming official test scheduled for this upcoming May. I think I've realized that I'm not intelligent enough, good enough of a test taker, or perhaps motivated enough for the exam for the score I need for the type of school I want to get in to. For instance, today I missed a question where asking to calculate the angles of the points of a star with the polygon in the middle. I knew that there were multiple triangles within the star, but just simply missed the polygon in the middle of the star, which led to me not being able to answer the question. Looking at the answer it was just like " well duh, of course". It's disheartening to think that solving those types of problems are so intuitive to people. But what's the strategy here? How do you learn a lesson from that question, for example? Is that type of question really just a mid 500s level question? ### GMAT/MBA Expert Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com Elite Legendary Member Joined 23 Jun 2013 Posted: 9320 messages Followed by: 478 members Upvotes: 2867 GMAT Score: 800 Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:29 pm Hi eric777, To start, many Test Takers find that training to face the GMAT is a challenging task, so you're not alone. When dealing with individual GMAT questions, it helps to remember that every aspect of each GMAT question is carefully chosen - the numbers involved, wording/descriptions and even the answer choices were chosen - by a human writer - to test you on certain (mostly "standard") concepts. You're rarely given that much information to work with, but what you are given is there for a reason - so you have to think in terms of what each prompt reminds you of (knowledge, patterns, prior questions that you've answered that were similar, etc). You don't have to be a genius to score at a high level on this Test, but you do have to take responsibility for the questions that you CAN get correct. Physically redoing questions that you've gotten wrong (step-by-step, on the pad) can help reinforce the knowledge, Tactics and patterns that you need to know to score at a high level. Beyond that work, you might need to analyze how you approach questions, the type of notes that you take, the frequency in which you try to do work "in your head", etc. If it's really been a couple of months since you last took a practice CAT, then you should take one soon. Make sure to take the FULL CAT - with the Essay and IR sections, take it away from your home, at the same time of day as when you'll take the Official GMAT, etc.. Once you have that score, you should report back here and we can discuss how best to proceed. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich _________________ Contact Rich at Rich.C@empowergmat.com eric777 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 01 Nov 2015 Posted: 12 messages Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:59 pm Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com wrote: Hi eric777, To start, many Test Takers find that training to face the GMAT is a challenging task, so you're not alone. When dealing with individual GMAT questions, it helps to remember that every aspect of each GMAT question is carefully chosen - the numbers involved, wording/descriptions and even the answer choices were chosen - by a human writer - to test you on certain (mostly "standard") concepts. You're rarely given that much information to work with, but what you are given is there for a reason - so you have to think in terms of what each prompt reminds you of (knowledge, patterns, prior questions that you've answered that were similar, etc). You don't have to be a genius to score at a high level on this Test, but you do have to take responsibility for the questions that you CAN get correct. Physically redoing questions that you've gotten wrong (step-by-step, on the pad) can help reinforce the knowledge, Tactics and patterns that you need to know to score at a high level. Beyond that work, you might need to analyze how you approach questions, the type of notes that you take, the frequency in which you try to do work "in your head", etc. If it's really been a couple of months since you last took a practice CAT, then you should take one soon. Make sure to take the FULL CAT - with the Essay and IR sections, take it away from your home, at the same time of day as when you'll take the Official GMAT, etc.. Once you have that score, you should report back here and we can discuss how best to proceed. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich Thank you. I'm planning on taking a full-length practice test this Saturday. eric777 Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Joined 01 Nov 2015 Posted: 12 messages Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:17 am Took my first Manhattan GMAT (I've used up my free official ones) and scored a 640. 40 quant 37 verbal. I'm happy about that as compared to previous scores. This included writing the full-length essay but not IR. I'm not worried about the essay at all - it's the one area I'm naturally good at. Going to review all the questions. The verbal score is puzzling. I feel much stronger in verbal - and I do know that I go too fast on the exam (usually have 10-15 minutes left even when trying to go slowly). I've attached a copy of the score assessment. Any advice or encouragement is appreciated! Attachments This post contains an attachment. You must be logged in to download/view this file. Please login or register as a user. ### GMAT/MBA Expert DavidG@VeritasPrep Legendary Member Joined 14 Jan 2015 Posted: 2667 messages Followed by: 120 members Upvotes: 1153 GMAT Score: 770 Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:13 am Quote: Going to review all the questions. The verbal score is puzzling. I feel much stronger in verbal - and I do know that I go too fast on the exam (usually have 10-15 minutes left even when trying to go slowly). Important to bear in mind - those raw scores mean very different things in quant and verbal. Your V37 would have a significantly higher percentile than your Q40, so despite the lower number, your verbal score is actually stronger than your quant. In the meantime, keep reviewing your old exams and attempting to boil down the essence of those tests into 4-5 actionable takeaways. Then do some drilling areas that need it and gear up to take another exam and repeat the process. _________________ Veritas Prep | GMAT Instructor Veritas Prep Reviews Save$100 off any live Veritas Prep GMAT Course

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### GMAT/MBA Expert

Rich.C@EMPOWERgmat.com Elite Legendary Member
Joined
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Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:18 am
Hi eric777,

Little mistakes can almost always be traced back to a lack of proper note-taking (you might also define this issue as doing too much work 'in your head'). Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what you are willing to do to guarantee that you get the question correct. Would you be willing to put in the extra effort to 'bulletproof' your work or not? The good news is the work is almost always pretty easy.

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

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Contact Rich at Rich.C@empowergmat.com

### GMAT/MBA Expert

Brent@GMATPrepNow GMAT Instructor
Joined
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Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:04 pm
eric777 wrote:
So a few of the questions were because of silly mistakes. For example, the first question was along the lines of there are 4*10^11 starts and 50 million are suns like ours or something along those lines. I did the problem exactly how it should be done, but was off by one factor and got 800 instead of 8000.

How do you guard against these types of things?
If silly mistakes are hurting your score, then it's important that you identify and categorize these mistakes. Some examples might include:
- sloppy writing causes a 7 to mysteriously turn into a 1
- you forget that a question is an EXCEPT question.
- you fail to notice crucial information such as x is an integer or w < 0.
- you calculate Pat’s current age when the question asked for the Pat’s age 5 years from now.
- and so on

Once you have identified the types of mistakes that YOU typically make, you will be able to spot situations/questions in which you're prone to making errors.

I write about this and other strategies in the following article: http://www.gmatprepnow.com/articles/avoiding-silly-misteaks-gmat

Cheers,
Brent

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