Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo

by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:51 pm

Salt deposits and moisture threaten to destroy the Mohenjo-Daro excavation in Pakistan, the site of an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile delta and the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates.

(A) that flourished at the same time as the civilizations
(B) that had flourished at the same time as had the civilizations
(C) that flourished at the same time those had
(D) flourishing at the same time as those did
(E) flourishing at the same time as those were

OA: A

@Experts - I got this one right. But got a doubt - 'as' should be followed by a verb/clause. But in the OA the verb is dropped; is it OK to drop the verb in comparison after 'as' when the tenses of both the verbs for both items of comparison are same ? Kindly explain.

Last edited by RBBmba@2014 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:51 pm

GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:55 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:I got this one right. But got a doubt - 'as' should be followed by a verb/clause. But in the OA the verb is dropped; is it OK to drop the verb in comparison after 'as' when the tenses of both the verbs for both items of comparison are same ? Kindly explain.

As you have noted, as typically serves to compare CLAUSES.
Generally, if the second clause omits a verb, the verb from the first clause is implied.
OA: an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile Delta.
Here, since the clause in red lacks a verb, the verb from the first clause is implied:
an ancient civilization that FLOURISHED at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile Delta FLOURISHED.

Many comparisons employ ELLIPSIS: the omission of words whose presence is understood.
For more on this issue, check my posts here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/doubt-sc-7-t281018.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/because-the- ... 75604.html (2nd and 3rd posts)
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-que ... 75126.html

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:27 am

GMATGuruNY wrote:
RBBmba@2014 wrote:I got this one right. But got a doubt - 'as' should be followed by a verb/clause. But in the OA the verb is dropped; is it OK to drop the verb in comparison after 'as' when the tenses of both the verbs for both items of comparison are same ? Kindly explain.
As you have noted, as typically serves to compare CLAUSES.
Generally, if the second clause omits a verb, the verb from the first clause is implied.
OA: an ancient civilization that flourished at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile Delta.
Here, since the clause in red lacks a verb, the verb from the first clause is implied:
an ancient civilization that FLOURISHED at the same time as the civilizations in the Nile Delta FLOURISHED.

Many comparisons employ ELLIPSIS: the omission of words whose presence is understood.
For more on this issue, check my posts here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/doubt-sc-7-t281018.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/because-the- ... 75604.html (2nd and 3rd posts)
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-que ... 75126.html

Hi Mitch,
Thanks for sharing this.I posted some queries on those respective threads. Please share your thoughts over there.

As for the qs at hand, my QUESTION was when actually the verb is dropped in the comparison SC ? Is it ONLY when the tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are same or else ?

Please explain.

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:12 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:As for the qs at hand, my QUESTION was when actually the verb is dropped in the comparison SC ? Is it ONLY when the tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are same or else ?

Please explain.

Generally, if a comparison involves a change in tense, the second clause should provide its own verb.
An OA in GMATPrep:
Since 1990 the global economy HAS GROWN more than it DID during the 10,000 years from the beginning of agriculture to 1950.
Since the comparison here involves a change in tense, the clause in red provides its own verb.

However, the OA to SC94 in the OG13 does not abide by this rule:
Heating-oil prices are expected to be higher this year than last.
Here, the word in red implies a change from the present tense to the past tense, but no past tense verb is provided.
Implied comparison:
Heating-oil prices are expected to be higher this year than [they were high] last [year].
It should be noted that NONE of the answer choices to SC94 provides a past tense verb to convey how high prices WERE last year.
Thus, this issue cannot serve as a reason to eliminate any of the answer choices.

In sum:
If a comparison involves a change in tense, the second clause should provide its own verb.
But if NO answer choice provides a verb for the second clause, look for other reasons to eliminate answer choices.

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:46 am

Mitch - so what I understand from your reply is that IDEALLY the verb is dropped in the comparison SC when tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are same, BUT verb could ALSO be the dropped in the second clause in some cases where tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are NOT same. Right?

Could there be scenarios where verb is NOT dropped in spite of the same tenses ? I mean, do you have any official question confirming this ?

Also, please let me know is there any other cases/reasons for verb to be dropped in the comparison SC questions or just "same tenses" and the EXCEPTION you mentioned are the ONLY reasons ?

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src_saurav: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 145; Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:27 am; Thanked: 2 times; Followed by:1 members

by src_saurav » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:51 am

Please explain why D is not the answer.I chose D as i wanted to compare time.A seems to compare time and civilization.

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:43 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:Mitch - so what I understand from your reply is that IDEALLY the verb is dropped in the comparison SC when tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are same, BUT verb could ALSO be the dropped in the second clause in some cases where tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are NOT same. Right?

Could there be scenarios where verb is NOT dropped in spite of the same tenses ? I mean, do you have any official question confirming this ?

Also, please let me know is there any other cases/reasons for verb to be dropped in the comparison SC questions or just "same tenses" and the EXCEPTION you mentioned are the ONLY reasons ?

Hi GMATGuru - could you please share your thoughts on my post above ?

Thank you!

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:43 pm

src_saurav wrote:Please explain why D is not the answer.I chose D as i wanted to compare time.A seems to compare time and civilization.

D: the site of an ancient civilization flourishing at the same time as those
Here, those lacks a plural antecedent.
Eliminate D.

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:17 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:Mitch - so what I understand from your reply is that IDEALLY the verb is dropped in the comparison SC when tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are same, BUT verb could ALSO be the dropped in the second clause in some cases where tenses of both the verbs for both the items of comparison are NOT same. Right?

If the verb for the second clause is THE SAME as the verb for the first, the second clause MAY OR MAY NOT omit the verb.
All of the following are correct:
John runs faster than Mary.
John runs faster than Mary does.
John runs faster than Mary runs.

Could there be scenarios where verb is NOT dropped in spite of the same tenses ? I mean, do you have any official question confirming this ?

The OA to SC89 in the OG12:
Dirt roads COST twice as much to maintain as paved roads DO.
Here, do is standing in for cost.
Conveyed meaning:
Dirt roads COST twice as much to maintain as paved roads COST to maintain.

Also, please let me know is there any other cases/reasons for verb to be dropped in the comparison SC questions or just "same tenses" and the EXCEPTION you mentioned are the ONLY reasons ?

It is not a REQUIREMENT that the verb in the second clause be dropped.
If the second clause includes its own verb -- and the verb is correct -- look for other reasons to eliminate the answer choice.

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:48 am

Thanks GMATGuru.

So to sum up the takeaways from your above posts -

1. If the second clause includes its own verb -- and the verb is correct (IRRESPECTIVE of same or different tenses of comparison) we should focus on other reasons to eliminate the answer choice or to determine its correctness.

2. In case of different tenses of comparison, the second clause should provide its own verb.But if NO answer choice provides a verb for the second clause, focus should be on the other reasons to eliminate answer choices.

3. If a comparison involves NO change in tense (i.e. same tense) and the second clause doesn't provide its own verb then ALSO we can't right away select this answer choice as OA but rather we should look for other reasons to determine its correctness.

Please confirm whether I got you correct (or whether I'm missing anything)!

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:23 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:Thanks GMATGuru.

So to sum up the takeaways from your above posts -

1. If the second clause includes its own verb -- and the verb is correct (IRRESPECTIVE of same or different tenses of comparison) we should focus on other reasons to eliminate the answer choice or to determine its correctness.

2. In case of different tenses of comparison, the second clause should provide its own verb.But if NO answer choice provides a verb for the second clause, focus should be on the other reasons to eliminate answer choices.

3. If a comparison involves NO change in tense (i.e. same tense) and the second clause doesn't provide its own verb then ALSO we can't right away select this answer choice as OA but rather we should look for other reasons to determine its correctness.

Please confirm whether I got you correct (or whether I'm missing anything)!

Your understanding is correct.
Two additions to Case 3:

A participle (VERBed or VERBing) omitted from the second clause must appear in the SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.
Check my posts here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/stadium-fill ... 99400.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-t271986.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-que ... 75126.html

If no verb appears in the second clause, the intended comparison must be crystal clear.
Eliminate any comparison that allows for more than one logical interpretation.
Check my second post here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-dancing- ... 15463.html

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:12 am

GMATGuruNY wrote:
RBBmba@2014 wrote:Thanks GMATGuru.

So to sum up the takeaways from your above posts -

1. If the second clause includes its own verb -- and the verb is correct (IRRESPECTIVE of same or different tenses of comparison) we should focus on other reasons to eliminate the answer choice or to determine its correctness.

2. In case of different tenses of comparison, the second clause should provide its own verb.But if NO answer choice provides a verb for the second clause, focus should be on the other reasons to eliminate answer choices.

3. If a comparison involves NO change in tense (i.e. same tense) and the second clause doesn't provide its own verb then ALSO we can't right away select this answer choice as OA but rather we should look for other reasons to determine its correctness.

Please confirm whether I got you correct (or whether I'm missing anything)!
Your understanding is correct.
Two additions to Case 3:

A participle (VERBed or VERBing) omitted from the second clause must appear in the SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.
Check my posts here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/stadium-fill ... 99400.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-t271986.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ellipsis-que ... 75126.html

If no verb appears in the second clause, the intended comparison must be crystal clear.
Eliminate any comparison that allows for more than one logical interpretation.
Check my second post here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-dancing- ... 15463.html

Thanks GMATGuru for your confirmation ans sharing these important inputs.

Just a quick clarification - you've mentioned for Case 3 that "A participle (VERBed or VERBing) omitted from the second clause must appear in the SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.". Will this NOT hold good if there is 'change of tense' as well ? I guess, it should.Right ?

Correct me please if wrong!

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:28 am

Hi Mitch - could you please confirm whether I'm correct on the above post ?

And it'd be really great if you could shed light on my questions on these two related links you shared -

1. ellipsis-t271986.html

2. the-dancing-doll-line-sold-slightly-t215463.html

Much thanks in advance!

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; Followed by:1906 members; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:45 am

RBBmba@2014 wrote:
Just a quick clarification - you've mentioned for Case 3 that "A participle (VERBed or VERBing) omitted from the second clause must appear in the SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.". Will this NOT hold good if there is 'change of tense' as well ? I guess, it should.Right ?

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.
Perhaps an example will help answer your question.
The following is an incorrect answer choice in the OG13:
Their wines have been priced to sell, and they are.
Here, the tense in the second clause differs from that in the first clause.
The implied meaning is as follows:
A: Their wines have been priced to sell, and they are [selling].
Since the participle in brackets does not appear earlier in the sentence, its omission in A constitutes an error.
Eliminate A.

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RBBmba@2014: Legendary Member; Posts: 944; Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:21 am; Thanked: 8 times; Followed by:5 members

by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:59 am

GMATGuruNY wrote: "A participle (VERBed or VERBing) omitted from the second clause must appear in the SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.".

My question was DOES the above aspect hold good in case of BOTH the following situations -

1. When comparison involves NO change in tense (i.e. SAME tenses)

2. When comparison involves change in tenses (i.e. DIFFERENT tenses)

Could you please shed light on this now ?

Much thanks in advance!