Halleyâ€™s comet

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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:25 am

vikram4689 wrote:Thanks Mitch, in view of following quote i have one doubt how
Mary walked a greater distance today than she WILL tomorrow is CORRECT since VERB forms (walked & walk) are different shouldn't it be Mary walked a greater distance today than she WILL WALK tomorrow

There might be some debate here. I personally prefer the second version, but the first is likely acceptable because one simple tense (simple past) is being compared to another (simple future): a reader can discern that how Mary walked is being compared to how Mary will [walk].

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:51 am

Do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.

Considering above rule i tried following question but to my surprise OA:B
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue to increase, as it has been since interest rates began to rise.
(A) as it has been
(B) as it has done
(C) which it has
(D) which it has been
(E) which it had been

source https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 44-15.html

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pmFollowed by: 1906 members; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:33 pm

vikram4689 wrote:
Do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.
Considering above rule i tried following question but to my surprise OA:B
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue to increase, as it has been since interest rates began to rise.
(A) as it has been
(B) as it has done
(C) which it has
(D) which it has been
(E) which it had been

source https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 44-15.html

Yes, the rule needs to be qualified.
When a helping verb such as has refers to a verb in a parallel form, do/did is typically not needed because the helping verb is sufficient on its own to imply the omitted verb. (Often, we don't even need the helping verb: John has eaten more cookies than Mary is sufficient to imply that John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS EATEN.)

In the sentence here, to increase and has increased are not parallel verb forms. Thus, the helping verb has is NOT sufficient on its own to imply the intended comparison. To make the comparison clear, the SC above uses has DONE (which is standing in for has INCREASED).

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:28 pm

Thanks Mitch for the discussion

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by iongmat » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:12 am

vikram4689 wrote: Considering above rule i tried following question but to my surprise OA:B
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue to increase, as it has been since interest rates began to rise.
(A) as it has been
(B) as it has done
(C) which it has
(D) which it has been
(E) which it had been

source https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 44-15.html

I am very skeptical about this question. I understand it was posted on btg, but were you able to figure out the "source" of this question? Really don't think it is an authentic question.

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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:02 am

iongmat wrote:
vikram4689 wrote: Considering above rule i tried following question but to my surprise OA:B
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue to increase, as it has been since interest rates began to rise.
(A) as it has been
(B) as it has done
(C) which it has
(D) which it has been
(E) which it had been

source https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 44-15.html
I am very skeptical about this question. I understand it was posted on btg, but were you able to figure out the "source" of this question? Really don't think it is an authentic question.

We should be skeptical: has done -- at least on the GMAT -- should be used to stand in for a verb in the same form, but no suitable antecedent verb appears in the preceding clause here.

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by iongmat » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:57 am

GMATGuruNY wrote: Incorrect: John has eaten more cookies than Mary has done.
Correct: John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS.

Hi Mitch, wondering if the second sentence above is really correct. How do we know whether "has" is auxiliary or non-auxiliary verb? I think we must add "eaten" at the end.

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by vikram4689 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:23 am

iongmat wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: Incorrect: John has eaten more cookies than Mary has done.
Correct: John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS.
Hi Mitch, wondering if the second sentence above is really correct. How do we know whether "has" is auxiliary or non-auxiliary verb? I think we must add "eaten" at the end.

Ellipsis can be used to compare two verbs that are EXACTLY SAME. Here the case is of ellipses as verb used is EXACTLY the same. Hence, all of the following sentences mean same
John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS EATEN
John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS
John has eaten more cookies than Mary

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by iongmat » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:26 am

GMATGuruNY wrote: Generally, do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.

In view of your comment, would the following sentence be incorrect:

He has assaulted in the past, and if let free, will do so in future as well.

If we skip "do", the sentence doesn't look ok:

He has assaulted in the past, and if let free, will in future as well.

Let us know your comments.

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by vikram4689 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:49 am

GMATGuruNY wrote:
iongmat wrote:
vikram4689 wrote: Considering above rule i tried following question but to my surprise OA:B
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue to increase, as it has been since interest rates began to rise.
(A) as it has been
(B) as it has done
(C) which it has
(D) which it has been
(E) which it had been

source https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 44-15.html
I am very skeptical about this question. I understand it was posted on btg, but were you able to figure out the "source" of this question? Really don't think it is an authentic question.
We should be skeptical: has done -- at least on the GMAT -- should be used to stand in for a verb in the same form, but no suitable antecedent verb appears in the preceding clause here.

Mitch, as you mentioned above, this ( ||ism of has done with a verb) should be case when we are comparing. since we are not comparing here, isn't has done == has increased

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by vikram4689 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:04 am

iongmat wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: Generally, do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.
In view of your comment, would the following sentence be incorrect:

He has assaulted in the past, and if let free, will do so in future as well.

If we skip "do", the sentence doesn't look ok:

He has assaulted in the past, and if let free, will in future as well.

Let us know your comments.

First of all this sentence is awkward as
a) object of assault is missing. Assaulted what ?
b) and...as well construction has redundancy

Modified sentence:
He has assaulted Maria in the past,and if let free, will do so in future
I think above sentence is fine.

Similar sentences -
I will sacrifice my life more than he will do
John has worked more than Mary has done/worked

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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:34 am

iongmat wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: Incorrect: John has eaten more cookies than Mary has done.
Correct: John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS.
Hi Mitch, wondering if the second sentence above is really correct. How do we know whether "has" is auxiliary or non-auxiliary verb? I think we must add "eaten" at the end.

You're suggesting that a reader might make the following interpretation:

John has eaten more cookies than Mary has cookies.

I doubt that any reader would interpret the sentence this way.
The expectation is that the second clause will be parallel to the first.
Thus, the default interpretation here is that how John has eaten cookies is being compared to how Mary has eaten cookies.

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by lunarpower » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:24 am

i received a private message regarding this thread.

here's the best -- and simplest -- way i can think to simplify this issue:
the helping verb "will" is the future-tense form of the helping verb "do".

this should take care of all the problems regarding this issue all at once.

with this rule/adjustment, all of the following sentences are now in the same basket:
david looks better today than he did yesterday.
david looks better than his brother does.
david looks better today than he will tomorrow.

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by vikram4689 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:24 am

lunarpower wrote:i received a private message regarding this thread.

here's the best -- and simplest -- way i can think to simplify this issue:
the helping verb "will" is the future-tense form of the helping verb "do".

this should take care of all the problems regarding this issue all at once.

with this rule/adjustment, all of the following sentences are now in the same basket:
david looks better today than he did yesterday.
david looks better than his brother does.
david looks better today than he will tomorrow.

Ron,
Usually i refer 3 rules mentioned at https://www.beatthegmat.com/soar-t62473-15.html#280069
for RULE 1 form of "to be" : is/am/are/was/were/be
for RULE 2 helping verbs : can/could/has/have/had
for RULE 3 form of "to do" : do/did/done/will/would

"Will" falls under RULE 3 and therefore needs another form of verb "to do" in first part of sentence. VERB "looks" is present and its future form -- "will look" -- should be present.

Is categorization of verbs & analysis(above) correct
david looks better today than he will look tomorrow. (actual sentence based on above analysis)
david looks better today than he will do tomorrow. (can't "do" acting as full verb stand for "look")
david looks better today than he will tomorrow. (why is this correct, it can't be ellipses because "looks" and not "look" appear in earlier part of sentence)

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by lunarpower » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:39 pm

vikram, go back and read rule #3 in that post again. it appears that you read the part in parentheses but missed the big boldface capitalized part right beforehand.
when you see "do" in the second part of one of these sentences, it is sometimes parallel to another form of "to do" -- hence the parenthetical comment -- but it's usually parallel to an ACTION VERB. for instance, note that the forms of "do", in the example sentences on that thread, are parallel to the forms of "disappear" (an action verb).

david looks better today than he will look tomorrow.

this sentence is fine, although the second "look" is unnecessary ("will" is a form of "to do", as noted above, and so is already sufficient).

david looks better today than he will do tomorrow. (can't "do" acting as full verb stand for "look")

this one is wrong.
if "will do" is acting as a full verb -- i.e., not a helping verb -- then the sentence is wrong because that verb no longer carries the meaning of "look".
if "will do" is acting as a helping verb, then it's redundant ("will" and "do" are both forms of "to do", so you don't need both of them).

for comparison purposes, here is one correct sentence for each of those types of constructions:

* do as a normal (non-helping) verb: Scott accepts more assignments than he will actually do.
(in this sentence, "do" does not stand for "accept"; it just means "do", as in "complete the assignment".)

* do as a helping verb: Scott accepts more assignments this year than he will next year.
(in this sentence, "will" is a form of the helping verb "do". it stands for "will accept" all by itself.)

david looks better today than he will tomorrow.

this one is correct. see above.

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