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by vijaynaik » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:53 pm
uwhusky wrote:I think the key here is understanding why verb exist and its role. Sentences are built by two essential elements, a subject noun phrase and a verb that demonstrates tense. So when you see a verb being tossed into an answer and another answer does not have a verb, that should almost be like "red flag warning!" because verb is such an important element within a sentence.

On the other hand, prepositions are tossed around in lengthy sentences as adjectives/adverbs, and they're almost always there to distract you from the real important things, subject and the verb.

In this case, the comparison could be written as:

"The level in 1990" and "the level was in 1990"

The two are not one of the same, because one is a noun phrase and the other is a clause.
Can u pl give any other examples of these 2 different cases: "The level in 1990" and "the level was in 1990"?

Thanks

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by uwhusky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:21 pm
Great discussion here: https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/if- ... t1901.html

I believe that although "The level in 1990" and "the level that was in 1990" (has that omitted, but works the same way) are almost identical in meaning, both example have whatever phrase/clause following "the level" functioning as adjectives, and the second construction is only used when you are changing the tense per Ron's explanation. I think this was also mentioned somewhere in the SC book, but I forgot what page it was.

But ya, some very note worthy materials in Ron's explanation.

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by vijaynaik » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:34 pm
Thank You.

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by lunarpower » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:34 am
i received a private message regarding this thread. the post to which i was directed, however, doesn't seem to contain any questions, and it's also not a post written by the author of the private message.
therefore, i think the best i can do here is simply to offer a few words.

if you see a SPLIT between "will" and "would", then it's most likely that we are dealing with a tense issue.
* if we are actually talking about an event that has not occurred yet -- i.e., an event that is genuinely in the future -- then we should usually use "will".
* if we are talking about an event that was still a future event at the time described in the sentence (but is no longer a future event), then we should use "would".

a couple of examples:

several experts have predicted that brazil will win the world cup in 2014. (as of this writing it is not 2014 yet, so the future tense is appropriate)

last year, several experts predicted that brazil would win this year's world cup. (this year's world cup is now over, so it's inappropriate to use the future tense. therefore, we use "would", which is a tense that we use to describe something that was once a future event, but is no longer)

in ancient times, the mayans predicted that the world will end in the year that corresponds to A.D. 2012 on the modern gregorian calendar. (2012 has not happened yet, so we still use the future tense for the prediction -- even though the prediction was made a really, really long time ago)
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by kvcpk » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:43 am
lunarpower wrote:i received a private message regarding this thread. the post to which i was directed, however, doesn't seem to contain any questions, and it's also not a post written by the author of the private message.
therefore, i think the best i can do here is simply to offer a few words.

if you see a SPLIT between "will" and "would", then it's most likely that we are dealing with a tense issue.
* if we are actually talking about an event that has not occurred yet -- i.e., an event that is genuinely in the future -- then we should usually use "will".
* if we are talking about an event that was still a future event at the time described in the sentence (but is no longer a future event), then we should use "would".

a couple of examples:

several experts have predicted that brazil will win the world cup in 2014. (as of this writing it is not 2014 yet, so the future tense is appropriate)

last year, several experts predicted that brazil would win this year's world cup. (this year's world cup is now over, so it's inappropriate to use the future tense. therefore, we use "would", which is a tense that we use to describe something that was once a future event, but is no longer)

in ancient times, the mayans predicted that the world will end in the year that corresponds to A.D. 2012 on the modern gregorian calendar. (2012 has not happened yet, so we still use the future tense for the prediction -- even though the prediction was made a really, really long time ago)
Hi Ron,

Can you please explain the will/would usage when used in If..Then construct?

I had trouble dealing with this problem. As I understand, in a IF..Then Construct,
Would is used when "If" part describes a situation unlikely to occur.
Will is used when "if" part describes a situation likely to occur.

In this problem, I think it is unlikely that the current trends continue.. Shouldnt "would" be used???

Please correct me..

Thank you!!

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by shweta.kalra » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:53 am
THANKS RON , great explanation
plz clarify........ if it were given in the answer choices
1.will soar to a level more than one-third higher than that
2. WILL soar to a level more than one-third higher than it was
WILL OPTION 1 BE CORRECT JUST FOR CONCISENESS ?
OR OPTION 2 CHANGES THE MEANING?
THNKS

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by shweta.kalra » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:54 am
THANKS RON , great explanation
plz clarify........ if it were given in the answer choices
1.will soar to a level more than one-third higher than that
2. WILL soar to a level more than one-third higher than it was
WILL OPTION 1 BE CORRECT JUST FOR CONCISENESS ?
OR OPTION 2 CHANGES THE MEANING?
THNKS

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by kvcpk » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:08 am
Another query I have here..
Soar ,more than, higher than
Arent all these terms redundant here??

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by lunarpower » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:58 am
kvcpk wrote:Hi Ron,

Can you please explain the will/would usage when used in If..Then construct?

I had trouble dealing with this problem. As I understand, in a IF..Then Construct,
Would is used when "If" part describes a situation unlikely to occur.
Will is used when "if" part describes a situation likely to occur.
there is such a distinction, but i don't recall seeing any official problems using that distinction.
in every "will"/"would" problem that i can immediately remember, the distinction has always been based on the tense of the verb, as described in the post that you quoted above.

even if there are some official problems that use the "if/then likely/unlikely" distinction -- a possibility that i don't completely discount -- they are vastly outnumbered by problems that use the tense distinction.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by lunarpower » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:24 am
shweta.kalra wrote:THANKS RON , great explanation
plz clarify........ if it were given in the answer choices
1.will soar to a level more than one-third higher than that
2. WILL soar to a level more than one-third higher than it was
WILL OPTION 1 BE CORRECT JUST FOR CONCISENESS ?
OR OPTION 2 CHANGES THE MEANING?
THNKS
#2 is incorrect because "it was" isn't parallel to anything.

if you're going to use "...than it was" as the second half of a parallel comparison, then it MUST be parallel to some other form of "to be" in the first half.
for instance, the following sentence is correct, and has valid parallelism:
the air quality of las vegas is higher this year than it was in 2005.
* "was" is parallel to "is" (both are forms of "to be")
* "it" has a proper antecedent ("the air quality of las vegas")
proper parallelism.

i'll give many more examples in the immediately following post.
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by lunarpower » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:24 am
[edited since first written]

in general,

1 * if you have than/as + subject + FORM OF "TO BE" as the second half of a comparison, then you must have another form of "to be" in the first half of the comparison.
or, there should be something in the first half that would make sense with "to be" in front of it.

2 * if you have than/as + subject + HELPING VERB as the second half of a comparison, you can have just about any other form of the same verb in the first part, as determined by context.

3 * if you have than/as + subject + FORM OF "TO DO" as the second half of a comparison, then you must have an ACTION VERB[/b] (or another form of "to do") in the first half of the comparison.

here are some examples:
#1
see the post directly above this one.
also
parking spots are disappearing much more quickly today than they were yesterday.
#2
james can negotiate with salespeople more effectively than stephanie can. (comparing their abilities)
james can negotiate with salespeople more effectively than he does. (his ability exceeds his actual performance, probably because he just isn't trying very hard)
#3
parking spots disappeared much faster today than they did yesterday.
tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager. (note that "did" doesn't have to have the same tense as the action verb)
Last edited by lunarpower on Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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by kvcpk » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:49 am
lunarpower wrote:
kvcpk wrote:Hi Ron,

Can you please explain the will/would usage when used in If..Then construct?

I had trouble dealing with this problem. As I understand, in a IF..Then Construct,
Would is used when "If" part describes a situation unlikely to occur.
Will is used when "if" part describes a situation likely to occur.
there is such a distinction, but i don't recall seeing any official problems using that distinction.
in every "will"/"would" problem that i can immediately remember, the distinction has always been based on the tense of the verb, as described in the post that you quoted above.

even if there are some official problems that use the "if/then likely/unlikely" distinction -- a possibility that i don't completely discount -- they are vastly outnumbered by problems that use the tense distinction.
Thanks Ron!!

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by lunarpower » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:02 am
kvcpk wrote:Thanks Ron!!
glad you found it helpful.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by shweta.kalra » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:26 am
thanks thanks thanks................... RON
YOU ARE GREAT

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by tomada » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:53 am
I realize this is a superfluous comment by this point, but if the sentence had begun "If current trends could continue...", then I believe the 3-2 split would favor "would", rather than "will".
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