Halleyâ€™s comet

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:27 am

I can not do this question. pls help

I see the two patterN

THE SAME NOUN AS

THE SAME NOUN THAT

I do not know how to use the paterns, pls, help, explain.

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:49 am

**editing this post after iongmat's post**
Thanks Ron. Now, almost all sentences seem to fall in place.
Rule: Only if "to do" verb is acting as helping verb, it can stand for an earlier verb
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD - no has/have/had earlier
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID - no "to do" verb earlier
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD RUN - different tense, no ||ism, no error
John RUNS faster than Mary DOES -"DOES" acting as helping verb for action verb "RUN"
John HAS WORKED more than Mary HAS DONE - RULE 3 category - "DONE" acting as helping verb for action verb "WORK"
The value of the dollar in international markets will continue TO INCREASE, as it HAS DONE since interest rates began to rise - RULE 3 category - "DONE" acting as helping verb for "to do" verb-"TO INCREASE" ...Is my reasoning correct for all 6 sentences

2 QUERIES-I'm unable to figure out reason for these
a) He has assaulted Maria in the past,and if let free, will do so in future
b) Amy has more pencils than Mary has-Correct BUT Amy has more pencils than has Mary -Incorrect ... source: https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons-t101544.html
c) Medieval monasteries often served as repositories for texts as do modern libraries - why "do" cannot stand for "serve". Similar sentence that shows verb transition "tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager." - https://www.beatthegmat.com/kaplan-800-m ... tml#331558

Last edited by vikram4689 on Tue May 01, 2012 6:41 am, edited 6 times in total.

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iongmat: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 193; Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 5:14 amFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 6 times

by iongmat » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:13 am

vikram4689 wrote: John RUNS faster than Mary DOES - INCORRECT

This actually seems correct to me.

vikram4689 wrote: John HAS WORKED more than Mary HAS DONE - sentence is incorrect

This actually seems correct to me, though "done" would be redundant.

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Sat May 26, 2012 1:20 am

ron,
awaiting your comments on above query

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:30 am

hi,
you wrote "2 QUERIES" (capital letters yours), but (a) i don't see any actual queries/questions, and (b) i see three, not two, example sentences. nevertheless, i will do my best to respond:

vikram4689 wrote: a) He has assaulted Maria in the past,and if let free, will do so in future.

this seems fine to me. what is the reference problem?
i.e., i'm sure you didn't just make up this example out of thin air; it most likely derives from an official problem somewhere. which problem?

b) Amy has more pencils than Mary has-Correct BUT Amy has more pencils than has Mary -Incorrect ... source: https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons-t101544.html

both of those should be fine, because there's parallelism between the two instances of "has" in each case. note that such parallelism is not present in the example you're quoting, so the analogy doesn't work.

c) Medieval monasteries often served as repositories for texts as do modern libraries - why "do" cannot stand for "serve". Similar sentence that shows verb transition "tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager." - https://www.beatthegmat.com/kaplan-800-m ... tml#331558

the post you're quoting here is criticizing the use of "like", not the use of "do". if you substitute "as" for "like" (as you've done here), then everything is fine.

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:45 am

Thanks Ron, can you please confirm if reasoning for 6 sentences in my previous post is correct

a) He has assaulted Maria in the past,and if let free, will do so in future.
this seems fine to me. what is the reference problem?
i.e., i'm sure you didn't just make up this example out of thin air; it most likely derives from an official problem somewhere. which problem?

This sentence was written by iongmat but he does not exactly know why it is correct. We discussed this sentence because it is correct despite following rules on https://www.beatthegmat.com/soar-t62473-15.html#280069 Can you tell why it is correct - may be "do so" idiom has something to do with it

b) Amy has more pencils than Mary has-Correct BUT Amy has more pencils than has Mary -Incorrect ... source: https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons-t101544.html
both of those should be fine, because there's parallelism between the two instances of "has" in each case. note that such parallelism is not present in the example you're quoting, so the analogy doesn't work.

I got this sentence from description of choice C in https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#441599 & similar point is mentioned in https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#443965

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by lunarpower » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:26 pm

vikram4689 wrote:**editing this post after iongmat's post**
Thanks Ron. Now, almost all sentences seem to fall in place.
Rule: Only if "to do" verb is acting as helping verb, it can stand for an earlier verb
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD - no has/have/had earlier
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID - no "to do" verb earlier
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD RUN - different tense, no ||ism, no error
John RUNS faster than Mary DOES -"DOES" acting as helping verb for action verb "RUN"

fine up to here.

--

John HAS WORKED more than Mary HAS DONE - RULE 3 category - "DONE" acting as helping verb for action verb "WORK"

this isn't ok. you would just write "...more than Mary has".

the best way to think about this sort of thing is to conceive of "do"/"done"/etc as a helping verb -- because that's basically what it is.
the point is that you can't put two helping verbs in a row, and that's what you are trying to do if you write "has done" here.

you can have
John works more than Mary does
John has worked more than Mary has
but you don't want has + done, unless that's actually the main verb. (in other words, it's ok to write "has done" if it's not standing for another verb, i.e., if "to do" is actually the main verb.)

The value of the dollar in international markets will continue TO INCREASE, as it HAS DONE since interest rates began to rise - RULE 3 category - "DONE" acting as helping verb for "to do" verb-"TO INCREASE"

i don't love this, but i can't say for sure that it's wrong, either. it isn't beautiful writing, but it's really a matter of whether GMAC would give it the ok.
do you have any official examples that correspond with this one?

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by lunarpower » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:31 pm

vikram4689 wrote:
b) Amy has more pencils than Mary has-Correct BUT Amy has more pencils than has Mary -Incorrect ... source: https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons-t101544.html
both of those should be fine, because there's parallelism between the two instances of "has" in each case. note that such parallelism is not present in the example you're quoting, so the analogy doesn't work.

I got this sentence from description of choice C in https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#441599 & similar point is mentioned in https://www.beatthegmat.com/comparisons- ... tml#443965

your first link there (the e-gmat one) is interesting because the poster contradicts him/herself.
i.e., they have the sentence Mary has sung more songs in school concerts than has Amy listed as incorrect -- even though the very rule that they wrote right beforehand leads (correctly) to the conclusion that this sentence is fine. (in short, this sentence is fine.)

as for John has more pencils than has Amy, the most appropriate comment is that you're just not going to see that sort of thing on the GMAT. this is the issue with many (probably most) non-official problems: they test a whole lot of stuff that you just aren't going to have to deal with on the real exam.

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:31 am

John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID - no "to do" verb earlier

ron,
we discussed that above sentence is incorrect but i am confused because i realized that, contrary to my above post, "was running" is a form of "to do" https://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/verbtodo.html and hence comply to rule https://www.beatthegmat.com/soar-t62473-15.html#280069

why then above sentence is incorrect. is there any rule that if "to be + verbing/verbed" is in first part of sentence then second part of sentence *cannot* have "do/did/done" as helping verb

above sentence shows an example of "to be + verbing" - "was running". following sentence shows an example of "to be + verbed" - "are stimulated". whether following sentence be correct
the 1991 study shows nauseating effects are stimulated by paracetamol as done by ibuprofen

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by lunarpower » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:53 pm

vikram4689 wrote:
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID - no "to do" verb earlier
ron,
we discussed that above sentence is incorrect but i am confused because i realized that, contrary to my above post, "was running" is a form of "to do" https://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/verbtodo.html

"was" is a form of "to be", not a form of "to do".

the 1991 study shows nauseating effects are stimulated by paracetamol as done by ibuprofen
this sentence is horrible. what is the source?
remember to stick to problems from official sources.

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:55 pm

lunarpower wrote:
vikram4689 wrote:
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID - no "to do" verb earlier
ron,
we discussed that above sentence is incorrect but i am confused because i realized that, contrary to my above post, "was running" is a form of "to do" https://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/verbtodo.html
"was" is a form of "to be", not a form of "to do".

actually i have been confused by the information https://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/verbtodo.html, which mentions "to be(form)+verbing" is a form of "to do". is it incorrect ?

i thought that "to do" form in 2nd part of sentence is standing for action verb used in "to be + verbing/verbed" i.e. i thought "did" is used to stand for past form of "run".

if above information is incorrect then can i say, if "to be + verbing/verbed" is in first part of sentence then second part of sentence *cannot* have "do/did/done" as helping verb

sorry if i am stretching this discussion, actually everything was clear until i came across that link

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:29 am

ron,
another instance: https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/sin ... tml#p50086
in this link correct option has "has grown" parallel to "did"
but you said "was running" is not parallel to "did" ... please explain why 1st is correct but 2nd one is incorrect although in both cases "did" is parallel to action verb and hence comply with rule 3 https://www.beatthegmat.com/soar-t62473-15.html#280069

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by lunarpower » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:00 am

these are good questions.

i've thought about this for a while, and here's what i've come up with. (these are not formal rules that i've seen anywhere; they are just my attempt to codify the natural intuition that i've achieved in many years of writing and editing formal english.)

basically, here's what i think is happening here --
* you can use did/do/etc. to substitute for "simple" tenses (simple present, simple past, etc.).
* you can also use did/do/etc. to substitute for "perfect" tenses (past perfect, present perfect).
so, the following sentence is ok:
no one else has ever played that song as well as you did yesterday.

on the other hand --
* you SHOULDN'T use did/do/etc. to substitute for "progressive" tenses (IS/ARE/WERE ____ING).
if i were asked for an explanation, i'd explain in terms of meaning: basically, did/do/etc. treat the event in question as a "point" event (= something that just happened at some point in time), but IS/ARE/WERE ____ING treats the event as an ongoing, non-point thing.
so, for instance:
he is running as fast as you did yesterday --> questionable. don't do this.
he is running as fast as you were yesterday --> this is better, because both parts treat the event as an ongoing process (in the cited timeframe).

again, none of these are "rules" that i was ever taught -- this is just the result of pondering this particular issue for a while, and thinking about tons and tons of actual examples.
if you find anything in GMAC's official canon that contradicts any of this, please mention it, and i'll think about the issue some more. (do not cite non-official examples.)

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vikram4689: Legendary Member; Posts: 1325; Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:24 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 105 times

by vikram4689 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:39 am

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