03/28/11

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03/28/11

by Night reader » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:26 am
Hi, I went to take the test today after four and half months of regular studying for Math and the last two months studying Verbal. I was not tired, neither was I sick. I felt great and had my breakfast at home. The test was scheduled for 10.15 am, at the PVue examination center, which is 25 minute commuting time from my home. I arrived at the test center 25 minutes earlier and had invigilators to register me for exam. I was relaxed but mindful prior to the test. My exam began smoothly, and I was introduced to the first topic AWA - arguments. It was about ... and I handled it pleasantly, as the day before my exam I was sitting and reviewing Princeton's edition 'Cracking GMAT' AWA part. I memorized the ready to use AWA template, so I started off by typing the template's structure , attaching topical ideas, and inspecting the argument evidence part. I have finished both AWA essays - Argument and Issue - without putting too much efforts. I think I managed to write up 450 words in each essay (may be more on argument topic).

I left for break and visited the restroom. I went back to continue my exam early, as one minute from my break was still running on the computer screen. I waited for several seconds and pressed the continue button. The Math part started. I had GMAT Prep like questions in the beginning part. At some point (up to the question 7) I even thought that GMAC had decided to have fun with me, because the first three questions were spitting images of OG11 problems with changed wording and values. I kept on doing the problems until a question 11 when suddenly I saw insanity on the screen - it was two monster digit numbers' question and some ridiculous query behind. Then came the question 12, I solved it brutally two ways and checked both times my calculation - all in vein, the answer I had was one unit less than the two those among A-E; the question was asking for approximation. A-E choices contained two close-by answers which were one unit +- what I have secured. Alas, I could not decide and chose the lowest from what I solved <-- please, note I have not cited neither the topic nor relative values here, so GMAC content's confidentiality is effected. Then there was a question like 2+2 - I tried not to get lost, as figured this being the CAT trick; I continued without any change in my aspiration. The problems continued to resemble OG11 and OG10... They more and more resembled the old problems I solved hundred times with different content and values. I could spot the change in content and even predict the statements in DS. In total, I had 25% word problems, one probability DS, one combination DS, couple of inequalities, two functions, one geometry word problem and no special type of integer problems. I was coaching myself with 4GMAT practice e-book for integer problems and DS in the last 10 days.

I finished off Math without any high level expectations, as I did not understand the essence of testing at all. The questions in Math section contained changed wording and resembled OG questions, and one of them contained an answer which according to my solution was the value +- 1.

I left for break and again was back 1 minute earlier to continue the exam.

The Verbal started, and I proceeded to the first pair of SC questions. I think I had answered the first two SC entries correctly, as a very tricky CR entry appeared afterward. I answered CR entry and received a short RC passage. I had almost read the first passage word-by-word and could remember every sentence from the passage. I answered all three questions with full understanding of what they were asking for. I was also keeping in mind how tricky way the RC questions may be posed on GMAT. I had a couple of such questions in MGMAT; they were accentuating attention on tiny issues in the passage. Anyway I had reached the question 19, and I was feeling great about the Verbal. By that time I had received two RCs which I almost scrutinized (read word-by-word). I was sure about SC entries which I answered, as I had enough training with e-gmat and my diagnostic accuracy rate in SC was above average before I even had started my GMAT preparation. In my pre-exam practice I used Powerscore LSAT's Logical Reasoning and built my CR accuracy on unbiased analysis of the argument assumptions, causes for the strengthen/weaken questions.

Ok, enough of writing! I approached the end of my exam and selected 'Report my Score'. I pushed the next button for I have spent too much time not to cancel my test scores. Even sub-consciously I was asking GMAC to degrade me. Yes, I felt confidence for asking the degrade. I had my practice scores within two-weeks prior to exam - Math 49 (GMAT Prep) and five days before Math 48 (MGMAT CAT2). Yet I scored 22 two years ago without doing any stroke of work for SC, CR, and RC. I did not read any RC passages seriously during my prior GMAT attempt. For SC I was using my ear instead of the correct English grammar rules (parallelism, misplaced modifiers, alternative words preferred by GMAT, idioms, etc.). More to mention about my verbal abilities two years ago - I had no sheer awareness about the conclusion, premise, evidence terms, the causality and effect relationship was formal discovery for me when I read CR Bible, as well as bold face questions ...

[spoiler]My score Math 35, Verbal 16. Drop-down in Math by 13 points, Verbal 19 points (MGMAT CAT five days prior to exam https://www.beatthegmat.com/urgent-comme ... 75614.html ).

Please be minded when approaching CAT format. In the year 2009, I used my natural English language skills for the Verbal and scored 22. This year after e-gmat (followed by MGMAT SC strategic guide), CR Bible, Power Score's LSAT Logical Reasoning, OG RC passages - the Verbal score 16.

One request from all BTG community members - Please don't write me about how sorry you feel about my score or advise me how to study and improve for retake...

I simply do not plan to retake CAT GMAT.

p.s. I had an assistant sitting in my team two years ago, whom I was teaching English language writing by compiling his office reports - yet he had scored 20 (twenty) more points before joining our office above what I scored today.[/spoiler]
Last edited by Night reader on Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by maihuna » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:10 am
Its sad man, I cant believe it. Since you have prohibited saying anything, but otherwise, its confidence broking yar. Due think exam has gone so different/tough/untakable?
Charged up again to beat the beast :)

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by rohu27 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:30 am
I could not stop myself from replying to your post Nightreader. I was waiting for your debrief (your status says you had your examt today). And no, im not feeling sorry or anything. Its just an exam mate, i only feel sorry for life-death situations. :D
From the time i jojned BTG, (only a month though) i have been following your replies and they are a proof of what you are.
Retaking exam or not upto you. Im sure you know what you are worth of.

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by rishi raj » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:55 am
Since you have forbidden us from saying anything ,I just have to say that "I don't have words to say on knowing about your score" (Spare me for the oxymoron,if that can be labelled one). You're one of the few of us who have really kept this forum alive with frenzied activity. Respect to you . Go on riding the wave of life.

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by Night reader » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:07 pm
I have deleted this post.
Last edited by Night reader on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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by kevincanspain » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:03 pm
That's a low score for you, judging by the quality of your posts. Send me a PM if you change your mind, and we will talk about what you have done to prepare thus far. If you really want to do an MBA, don't give up!
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by saurabh_maths » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:08 pm
Last edited by saurabh_maths on Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Night reader » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:39 pm
I have deleted this post.
Last edited by Night reader on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by lunarpower » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:38 am
received a pm.
Night reader wrote:I have finished both AWA essays - Argument and Issue - without putting too much efforts.
this is your primary mission when you do the essays -- to exert as little effort as possible, while still writing a decent essay. so it sounds like you accomplished your objective there.
I had GMAT Prep like questions in the beginning part.
what exactly do you mean by this? i.e., what qualities of the questions were similar to the qualities of their gmat prep counterparts?

the comment makes me a little bit nervous -- in the sense that, if you had somehow memorized a bunch of problems from gmat prep, that sort of memorization would be a severe disadvantage on test day. specifically, if a question on the real test bears some sort of significant similarity to a gmat prep problem, there is probably going to be some fundamental difference that causes the whole problem to turn out differently. if that's the case, then a strong reminder of the problem you saw in gmat prep is going to be disadvantageous: it's going to make it more difficult for you to notice the aspects of the problem that are different.
At some point (up to the question 7) I even thought that GMAC had decided to have fun with me, because the first three questions were spitting images of OG11 problems with changed wording and values.
this is what i mean -- it seems like you've memorized the og11 problems, if you are even able to say something like this.

my prediction: if there were problems that were "spitting images" of the og problems -- ESPECIALLY if they were data sufficiency problems -- the answers to those problems probably don't come out in the same way that the og11 answers do. something is probably different, in a way that affects everything.
I saw insanity on the screen
...
Then there was a question like 2+2
...
I tried not to get lost, as figured this being the CAT trick; I continued without any change in my aspiration
yeah, thinking about difficulty levels as you progress through the test is pointless (and is also a needless source of stress).
also, don't forget that about 30% of all the problems on the test are experimental, and are therefore completely random in terms of difficulty. so, even if you are somehow able to accurately judge the difficulty of the problems (which is extremely, extremely unlikely), it still doesn't matter -- because you don't know which problems are experimental and which problems are not.
. The problems continued to resemble OG11 and OG10... They more and more resembled the old problems I solved hundred times with different content and values. I could spot the change in content and even predict the statements in DS.
if i had to place a bet on your primary problem, this is where i would put my money -- you're trusting that "problems that look like OG problems" will actually work the same way.
this is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the case -- DS problems in particular are very sensitive to tiny changes in the statements and questions, and the whole purpose of the gmat is to be a test that is inaccessible to memorization-based techniques.

for instance, consider this problem (from gmat prep):
In the rectangular coordinate system, line k has equation y = mx + b, where m and b are constants. does the line k intersect quadrant II?

1) Slope of k is -1/6

2) The y-intercept of k is -6


the answer to this problem is (a).
BUT...
if you change the slope to +1/6, the answer becomes (c).
if you change the quadrant to I, the answer becomes (c).
if you change the quadrant to III, the answer becomes (b).
if you change the quadrant to IV, the answer becomes (d).

you can see where i'm going with this -- if you specifically remember the *numbers* and the *answer* to the existing problem, then my new, modified versions of the problem (note just how small those modifications are) will be HARDER, because your mind will still be set in the "frame" of the old problem.
on the other hand, if you get TAKEAWAYS that are more abstract -- such as "if i can tell whether a line slopes upward or downward, then there are certain quadrants that it must hit" -- then the new problems are easier; that's the benefit of studying. but, from your narrative, that doesn't seem like the way in which you studied; it sounds like you almost tried to memorize the problems.
memorizing problems is bad!
it's probably worse than not even studying at all!

I think I had answered the first two SC entries correctly, as a very tricky CR entry appeared afterward.
it's impossible for you to judge things like this accurately -- so don't try.

you should concentrate on exactly 2 things:
1) the problem that is directly in front of you
2) timing.


note the things that are NOT in this list:
* difficulty levels
* whether you think you've gotten previous questions correct or incorrect
* the adaptive progression of the test
you should not be thinking about any of these things, ever.
By that time I had received two RCs which I almost scrutinized (read word-by-word).
this doesn't seem like a productive way to read an rc passage -- if you need word-for-word details, you can simply go back and look them up!

when you read an RC passage, you should be looking for
1) MAIN IDEAS
2) RELATIONSHIPS between the concepts presented in the passage
-- i.e., how does it all tie together?

you shouldn't bother with trying to remember the details -- if you need to know them, you can just return to the passage and look them up.

I did not read any RC passages seriously during my prior GMAT attempt.
my assessment of this statement depends on what you mean by "not seriously".
if you mean that you weren't paying much attention to the details, and that you were just paying attention to the "overall big picture" of the passage, then that's exactly what you were supposed to be doing!!

i.e., if you have changed your RC reading style so that you are paying more attention to little details, then that means that your RC reading technique has gotten worse, not better.
More to mention about my verbal abilities two years ago - I had no sheer awareness about the conclusion, premise, evidence terms, the causality and effect relationship was formal discovery for me when I read CR Bible, as well as bold face questions ...
well, this could be a disadvantage on some questions, but an advantage on others.

for instance, strengthening/weakening questions are very intuitive -- they are, in general, impossible to solve with any kind of memorized rules. (that, by the way, is exactly why gmac puts so many of them on the test.)
so, if you had previously solved strengthening/weakening questions with intuition, but were trying to solve them this time with some bunch of memorized rules -- then, yeah, you're probably going to do a lot worse on them this time.

on the other hand, hard rules can be useful for more rigid, logically rigorous question types (such as "draw the conclusion" and "find the assumption"). unfortunately, there aren't as many of these as there are of the more intuitive question types.

[spoiler]My score Math 35, Verbal 16. Drop-down in Math by 13 points, Verbal 19 points (MGMAT CAT five days prior to exam https://www.beatthegmat.com/urgent-comme ... 75614.html ).[/quote]

yeah, but, are those "drop-downs" based on tests with repeated problems?
if so, then they don't actually mean anything; if you see as few as 5-6 repeated problems on an entire gmat exam, then your score could be artificially higher by as much as 80-90 points.
Please be minded when approaching CAT format. In the year 2009, I used my natural English language skills for the Verbal and scored 22. This year after e-gmat (followed by MGMAT SC strategic guide), CR Bible, Power Score's LSAT Logical Reasoning, OG RC passages - the Verbal score 16.
my primary thought here is that, especially for CR and RC, you probably tried to follow a study plan that was too memorization-heavy. especially for CR
if you try to approach CR by memorizing rules -- especially if you had previously used intuition/"common sense" to solve most of the problems -- then you are going to get worse at it.

the only other thing that comes to mind is a thread on which we had a conversation about the wisdom, or lack of wisdom, of studying by simply doing lots of problems. (i can't find that thread anymore, since you've posted on almost 1000 threads!) on that thread, i made the point that doing lots and lots and lots of problems is almost always an unproductive way to study, and i think you've finally found that out as well.
if you decide to pick up the books and study for the gmat again at a later date, my hope is that you'll make an attempt to move away from "quantity" and toward "quality" -- i.e., doing many fewer problems, but doing a much more thorough, takeaway-based review of those problems.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by Night reader » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:42 am
I have deleted this post.
Last edited by Night reader on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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by RACHVIK » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:23 am
Hi Night Reader,

I just came across this post. Its quite dis-heartening but do not give up. In every failure lies the root to success and I firmly believe that when the going gets tuff, the tuff gets going.

I do agree to Ron's comments. I am not an expert to comment on where you went wrong or what you did right, for its easy to preach. What I would like to say here is that very few try to analyze solutions and lay emphasis on key take aways from problems. That is where the whole issue lies. It doesn't really matter whether one can solve a problem, but what matters is whether one understood the underlying logic. In every area, try to make your rules and then see how quickly does it help you to solve problems your way!!

do not give UP!! make it your mission to beat the GMAT....for if anyone can, you definitely CAN!!
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by ankur.agrawal » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:44 am
Well all i can say "we will miss u on BTG". U Really kept the forum alive.

No offense, But I frankly admit one thing, I personally stopped reading your answers to questions because it was way too complex for me to understand & one more thing , Ur pic really scares me off.:)

Anyways gud luck.



Night reader wrote:Hi, I went to take the test today after four and half months of regular studying for Math and the last two months studying Verbal. I was not tired, neither was I sick. I felt great and had my breakfast at home. The test was scheduled for 10.15 am, at the PVue examination center, which is 25 minute commuting time from my home. I arrived at the test center 25 minutes earlier and had invigilators to register me for exam. I was relaxed but mindful prior to the test. My exam began smoothly, and I was introduced to the first topic AWA - arguments. It was about ... and I handled it pleasantly, as the day before my exam I was sitting and reviewing Princeton's edition 'Cracking GMAT' AWA part. I memorized the ready to use AWA template, so I started off by typing the template's structure , attaching topical ideas, and inspecting the argument evidence part. I have finished both AWA essays - Argument and Issue - without putting too much efforts. I think I managed to write up 450 words in each essay (may be more on argument topic).

I left for break and visited the restroom. I went back to continue my exam early, as one minute from my break was still running on the computer screen. I waited for several seconds and pressed the continue button. The Math part started. I had GMAT Prep like questions in the beginning part. At some point (up to the question 7) I even thought that GMAC had decided to have fun with me, because the first three questions were spitting images of OG11 problems with changed wording and values. I kept on doing the problems until a question 11 when suddenly I saw insanity on the screen - it was two monster digit numbers' question and some ridiculous query behind. Then came the question 12, I solved it brutally two ways and checked both times my calculation - all in vein, the answer I had was one unit less than the two those among A-E; the question was asking for approximation. A-E choices contained two close-by answers which were one unit +- what I have secured. Alas, I could not decide and chose the lowest from what I solved <-- please, note I have not cited neither the topic nor relative values here, so GMAC content's confidentiality is effected. Then there was a question like 2+2 - I tried not to get lost, as figured this being the CAT trick; I continued without any change in my aspiration. The problems continued to resemble OG11 and OG10... They more and more resembled the old problems I solved hundred times with different content and values. I could spot the change in content and even predict the statements in DS. In total, I had 25% word problems, one probability DS, one combination DS, couple of inequalities, two functions, one geometry word problem and no special type of integer problems. I was coaching myself with 4GMAT practice e-book for integer problems and DS in the last 10 days.

I finished off Math without any high level expectations, as I did not understand the essence of testing at all. The questions in Math section contained changed wording and resembled OG questions, and one of them contained an answer which according to my solution was the value +- 1.

I left for break and again was back 1 minute earlier to continue the exam.

The Verbal started, and I proceeded to the first pair of SC questions. I think I had answered the first two SC entries correctly, as a very tricky CR entry appeared afterward. I answered CR entry and received a short RC passage. I had almost read the first passage word-by-word and could remember every sentence from the passage. I answered all three questions with full understanding of what they were asking for. I was also keeping in mind how tricky way the RC questions may be posed on GMAT. I had a couple of such questions in MGMAT; they were accentuating attention on tiny issues in the passage. Anyway I had reached the question 19, and I was feeling great about the Verbal. By that time I had received two RCs which I almost scrutinized (read word-by-word). I was sure about SC entries which I answered, as I had enough training with e-gmat and my diagnostic accuracy rate in SC was above average before I even had started my GMAT preparation. In my pre-exam practice I used Powerscore LSAT's Logical Reasoning and built my CR accuracy on unbiased analysis of the argument assumptions, causes for the strengthen/weaken questions.

Ok, enough of writing! I approached the end of my exam and selected 'Report my Score'. I pushed the next button for I have spent too much time not to cancel my test scores. Even sub-consciously I was asking GMAC to degrade me. Yes, I felt confidence for asking the degrade. I had my practice scores within two-weeks prior to exam - Math 49 (GMAT Prep) and five days before Math 48 (MGMAT CAT2). Yet I scored 22 two years ago without doing any stroke of work for SC, CR, and RC. I did not read any RC passages seriously during my prior GMAT attempt. For SC I was using my ear instead of the correct English grammar rules (parallelism, misplaced modifiers, alternative words preferred by GMAT, idioms, etc.). More to mention about my verbal abilities two years ago - I had no sheer awareness about the conclusion, premise, evidence terms, the causality and effect relationship was formal discovery for me when I read CR Bible, as well as bold face questions ...

[spoiler]My score Math 35, Verbal 16. Drop-down in Math by 13 points, Verbal 19 points (MGMAT CAT five days prior to exam https://www.beatthegmat.com/urgent-comme ... 75614.html ).

Please be minded when approaching CAT format. In the year 2009, I used my natural English language skills for the Verbal and scored 22. This year after e-gmat (followed by MGMAT SC strategic guide), CR Bible, Power Score's LSAT Logical Reasoning, OG RC passages - the Verbal score 16.

One request from all BTG community members - Please don't write me about how sorry you feel about my score or advise me how to study and improve for retake...

I simply do not plan to retake CAT GMAT.

p.s. I had an assistant sitting in my team two years ago, whom I was teaching English language writing by compiling his office reports - yet he had scored 20 (twenty) more points before joining our office above what I scored today.[/spoiler]

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by Night reader » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:51 pm
I have deleted this post.
Last edited by Night reader on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by ssgmatter » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 pm
i would only say if you wish to do MBA then do not quit!!....i have been through your stage...things happen and i guess may happen for good

so cheer up and i wish you take the best decision in your life..

cheers!
Best-
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by Night reader » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:05 am
I have deleted this post.
Last edited by Night reader on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.