some cool discussions...good to read...

cheers!

Got a PM but was out of the office for a long weekend (Presidents Day...doesn't seem like a real holiday but if the company wants to close I will not complain!). Hopefully it's not too late to chime in with a few thoughts.

First, and I know you said not to, but I do want to empathize, NR - it definitely seems as though you put a ton of work into this test and had a right to expect better results. It's always disappointing to see anyone put in the effort and come up short.

But I'll echo something that Ron said back on page 1 of this thread - memorization-heavy, labor-intensive study methods tend not to work so well on the GMAT. If I can make one general comment about the volume of posts I've seen here (and it's not just here...just GMAT studiers in general) it's that most people are willing to study hard, but also to rely on "studying hard" often at the expense of "studying smart". I read way too many posts here from people listing:

-How many hours per week or months overall they can study
-How many practice tests they can/will take or have taken
-Which books / how many books they've used

The general consensus here betrays a group that works incredibly hard, but it's noticeably lacking when it comes to posts that analyze reasons for poor performance. I'm thrilled whenever I see posts that talk about:

-What a particular question can teach readers about other potential questions (like Ron also mentioned, I think the tendency is to try to memorize questions and not to glean major takeaways)
-Reasons for a correct answer other than "idiomatic"
-Patterns that people have seen across multiple question types or practice tests (e.g. "the GMAT seems to be testing a lot of addition/subtraction of exponentials"; or "I've seen quite a few SC questions that hinge on the logic of whether the sentence even makes sense")


Note this - I don't think anyone is wrong or "dumb" for studying this way - that's just the way you've been conditioned to study your whole life, because most tests you've taken are final exams. They've always tested your knowledge - what did you learn? But the GMAT is a reasoning test, so it's different...it tests how you think. And most people have a hard time delineating the two and putting together a more effective study regimen for this different type of test.

The key to studying for the GMAT is not the number of hours you spend, the number of practice exams you take, or the number of flashcards you've memorized. If you look at GMAC research, scores are positively correlated with time spent studying until you get over 100 hours, when the scores tend to dip. It's not a test that rewards brute force - it's a test that rewards your ability to find patterns and relationships. So I think the #1 thing that people need to learn is that it's a reasoning test and not a content test, and that you have to push yourself to study differently.



Now, in your case, you should be happy to know that the GRE is much more a knowledge test - you can brute-force and memorize your way to success much more so on the GRE than on the GMAT. So if you've put in that kind of work already, it should transfer pretty nicely to the relevant content sections of the GRE. But for anyone studying for the GMAT, let this be a lesson - NightReader studied more and harder than most of you will and it didn't transfer directly to success. This test is a different beast and so you need to prepare for it differently.

Excellent points, Brian! That's why an effective prep course will emphasize strategies rather than simple content. As I've said before, you are never going to see a question on the exam that you've seen in practice. You need to learn why the questions are being asked and what they are testing, not just what the specific answers are. Keep in mind, this test is the best predictor available for academic success in the first year of B-school. It does test ways of thinking that will be vital in your MBA program. Learning those reasoning skills while studying for the GMAT can significantly contribute to your understanding and enjoyment of the MBA classroom.

I have deleted this post.

I am beginning to feel as if someone were telling me that "everything except the Romans themselves was responsible for the fall of a great empire".
Discrimination on PearsonVue's part and faulty computer systems? What is next? Aliens?

Apologies for being so blunt and I know some are older than others.

Night reader wrote:brother, keep the fort please! You got knowledge and great capacity - face it. I suggest you do spend money, you do it please! Register for exam with different test center and take this. I do the same, BUT I should bring advocacy in the face of GRE too. If I score not less than high 80s percentile rank with another decent standardized test accepted by Stanford for its ...

Thanks for your words N.R., but I am finding it difficult to pinpoint what and where I should improve. 22 percentile means I've completely failed to understand the exam. My stronger section is verbal (I've taken other MBA exams earlier, never scored below 90 percentile in V), I also took LSAT RC's and CR's for practice and scored well consistently (A set of CR and RC from LSAT in 90 minutes with around 85% accuracy). If the exam is reasoning based, as Brian has suggested, how come my reasoning went for toss on test day? I had 8 hours of sleep, didn't feel sleepy for a moment, my timing was accurate but still...
With more than 6 years of experience it wasn't easy for me take out time for studying. I completely ignored my job for a month, not sure if I'll be able to do it again.

Pretty frenzied and interesting discussion going on here(future test takers should really read the insights given by instructors here). I concur with what Ron has pointed out regarding getting adequate amount of sleep. In fact, lately I have been reading a book on human psychology . The book says that the ideal amount of sleep for an adult is 7 hours and people who are heavily either into sports or into active studying should definitely take this much amount of rest irrespective of the fact that they think that a 4-5 hours of sleep is sufficient. If you see top performing sportspersons in any field, you'll see that their coaches make them go to bed on time and make them sleep for at least 6 hours/day . Though there are cases/jobs where you can't afford to sleep for more than 4 hours; for example, the president of the United states hardly get more than 4 hours of sleep but that is something that they probably cannot help because of their crazily busy schedules .
Here's an interesting article related to sleep deprivation among presidential candidates.

https://stanfordreview.org/article/presi ... p-deficit/

I remember messing up presentations, unable to concentrate in even interesting lectures and no creative ideas coming to my mind somedays and the common thread I see running across such things is the lack of sleep.

I have deleted this post.

maihuna wrote:
another, there are lot many experts here, so members duscussion is understood to be trash, while actual purpose of such discussions couls as well be all type of discussions, I personally get pissed off when some idiot mentions *experts plz explain" or *only experts plz respond" as others are here to see commentry.

Wise Guy,Whats so wrong about asking experts for help.Isnt BTG meant for asking experts too for help .Whats the guarantee that anyone other than an expert is posting a reply that is 100% correct when it comes to GMAT - something that really matters a lot to some people.
Its a forum that is meant for taking help and helping others.

mundasingh123 they are my own feeling with no arguments. i m not sure if i need ur permission to do that, do I?

mundasingh123 wrote:

maihuna wrote:
another, there are lot many experts here, so members duscussion is understood to be trash, while actual purpose of such discussions couls as well be all type of discussions, I personally get pissed off when some idiot mentions *experts plz explain" or *only experts plz respond" as others are here to see commentry.

Wise Guy,Whats so wrong about asking experts for help.Isnt BTG meant for asking experts too for help .Whats the guarantee that anyone other than an expert is posting a reply that is 100% correct when it comes to GMAT - something that really matters a lot to some people.
Its a forum that is meant for taking help and helping others.

and yes i m not against *experts also* but *experts only* posts, and why I have this feeling is after seeing suched pissed off invites I do not understand what to do, should I participate in discussion or wait for those experts for the commentary.

maihuna wrote:mundasingh123 they are my own feeling with no arguments. i m not sure if i need ur permission to do that, do I?

mundasingh123 wrote:

maihuna wrote:
another, there are lot many experts here, so members duscussion is understood to be trash, while actual purpose of such discussions couls as well be all type of discussions, I personally get pissed off when some idiot mentions *experts plz explain" or *only experts plz respond" as others are here to see commentry.

Wise Guy,Whats so wrong about asking experts for help.Isnt BTG meant for asking experts too for help .Whats the guarantee that anyone other than an expert is posting a reply that is 100% correct when it comes to GMAT - something that really matters a lot to some people.
Its a forum that is meant for taking help and helping others.

maihuna wrote:mundasingh123 they are my own feeling with no arguments. i m not sure if i need ur permission to do that, do I?

mundasingh123 wrote:

maihuna wrote:
another, there are lot many experts here, so members duscussion is understood to be trash, while actual purpose of such discussions couls as well be all type of discussions, I personally get pissed off when some idiot mentions *experts plz explain" or *only experts plz respond" as others are here to see commentry.

Wise Guy,Whats so wrong about asking experts for help.Isnt BTG meant for asking experts too for help .Whats the guarantee that anyone other than an expert is posting a reply that is 100% correct when it comes to GMAT - something that really matters a lot to some people.
Its a forum that is meant for taking help and helping others.

I empathise with you.Its the same with others as well.They donmt need anone's permission either.Right ? If u can view the situation from their point of view too.I didnt understand what u meant by invitations. The topic comes on the Forum Board and they are available for all. I refrain from replying in those cases in which the Poster has explicitly mentioned that he needs an expert to clarify those nuances of SC/CR/RC which he finds difficult to grasp.What goes without putting it down explicitly is that he expects the expert to talk about some technique that he can deploy later during the GMAT.
Ya I get your point too

I have deleted this post.

vaibhavtripathi wrote:I am beginning to feel as if someone were telling me that "everything except the Romans themselves was responsible for the fall of a great empire".
Discrimination on PearsonVue's part and faulty computer systems? What is next? Aliens?

Apologies for being so blunt and I know some are older than others.

Even i feel the same Vaibhav, NightReader may/might have had put ton's of Hardwork. But it's like "Swirling a Swiss sword in air without having a opponent"!!.

Now i can understand why he has named himself as "NightReader". GMAT is not about cramming or solving 10000's of questions.

As Tani said " "That's why an effective prep course will emphasize strategies rather than simple content.".

Great Discussion!!