WHICH LSAT SETS FOR CR AND RC ?

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luvuntn: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 8; Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:20 am; Location: FARIDABAD,INDIA; Thanked: 1 times

by luvuntn » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:59 am

ON the lot of posts i have read that lsat sets can prepare me well for gmat cr and rc

''The best RC prep source I have ever had (even far better than OG) : LSAT sets(or tests) and Kaplan's explanations to them ( around 30 sets, each with 4 passages).''

.can anybody tell which lsat sets are being talked about and on which website i could find them,remembring that the explanation should be reliable

thanx

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Source: Beat The GMAT — GMAT Strategy | Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:59 am

swargupta: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 4; Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:43 am

by swargupta » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:36 pm

luvuntn wrote:ON the lot of posts i have read that lsat sets can prepare me well for gmat cr and rc

''The best RC prep source I have ever had (even far better than OG) : LSAT sets(or tests) and Kaplan's explanations to them ( around 30 sets, each with 4 passages).''

.can anybody tell which lsat sets are being talked about and on which website i could find them,remembring that the explanation should be reliable

thanx

I too have the same query,

Need to know if somebody has ever referred LSAT books for CR - RC preparation and if yes, which book/notes/tests would be helpful.

Million thanks in advance.

Swar

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David@VeritasPrep: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2193; Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:30 pmFollowed by: 512 members; Location: Vermont and Boston, MA; Thanked: 1186 times; GMAT Score:770

by David@VeritasPrep » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:22 pm

I teach both the LSAT and the GMAT and I have to disagree with the notion of using LSAT question sets to prepare for the GMAT. LSAT sets are great for preparing for the LSAT, but they are very different than GMAT questions. There are at least 15 distinct varieties of LSAT CR questions, each requiring a different technique. For the GMAT I would say no more than 5 techniques are necessary to address all GMAT questions.

Aside from having much greater variety than GMAT questions, LSAT questions have stimuli that are also generally much more complicated. GMAT questions generally rely on just one conclusion, one main premise and some background information. Furthermore, the conclusion is the last sentence in at least 8 out of 10 GMAT questions. So, the GMAT has predictable patterns that you can focus on. The LSAT often has two or three conclusions and generally relies on more than one main premise.

Please remember that the Critical Reasoning is fully 1/2 of the LSAT and about 1/6 of the GMAT.

If you were to study only a few LSAT CR questions it would confuse you and you would lose the patterns that are there in GMAT questions. If you study long enough to master LSAT CR questions you will have neglected everything else.

As to Reading Comp. the same is true to a lesser extent. The LSAT reading comp is certainly more difficult that the GMAT RC, with longer passages and more let's say "slippery questions." Studying the LSAT reading comp is perhaps a little better than studying "fake" RC questions, but the Official Guides are really the way to go here as well.

Stick with official GMAT questions and really understand what you are looking for...

Hope that helps!

David

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uwhusky: Legendary Member; Posts: 1172; Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:20 pmFollowed by: 4 members; Thanked: 74 times

by uwhusky » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:01 pm

Thank you David! I was "almost" convinced to look into LSAT materials after so many talks about it, and I am glad you made this post.

Can you provide some tips on how to review OG questions for someone that have already went through them at least once?

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David@VeritasPrep: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2193; Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:30 pmFollowed by: 512 members; Location: Vermont and Boston, MA; Thanked: 1186 times; GMAT Score:770

by David@VeritasPrep » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:19 pm

Have you done all four OGs that have verbal questions? The 12th edition Maroon, 11th edition Orange, 2nd edition verbal Dark Blue, 1st edition verbal Purple. Questions do overlap between 12th and 11th but some are different, same with 1st and 2nd but no overlap between 12th edition and 2nd. (Hope that made sense).

If you have done all the questions, and even if you have not, the thing that you want to do is not just "get a question right" you want to see how that question relates to other questions. You want to be able to repeat the performance on test day.

I suggest identifying the question type for each question. For strengthen and weaken questions (about 2/3 of the OG questions) you want to identify the conclusion and the most important premise and then see how you could have predicted the correct answer given those - the conclusion and most important premise.

For inference/ conclusion questions you want to focus on the four answer choices that could be false (these are the incorrect answers) Identify which of the four ways that each choice is false: 1. Beyond the scope 2. A prediction 3. Something that is actually false 4. A command (you SHOULD do this or that). The one that is not eliminated is the correct.

For paradox questions, identify the paradox and figure out which of the two things needs to be explained. The correct answer will explain the thing that needs to be explained.

Anyway there are some thoughts.

Good Luck!

David

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uwhusky: Legendary Member; Posts: 1172; Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:20 pmFollowed by: 4 members; Thanked: 74 times

by uwhusky » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:33 pm

Thanks again David. I might have to look into getting the 11th edition and the 1st edition verbal.

Following these suggestions, do you think it's valuable to practice recognizing question types and memorize incorrect answer traps to each type?

Another question that is a little bit off subject: are fallacies considered automatically incorrect? I came across a few that attacked the person's position as oppose to his statement, so should I automatically cross these off?

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Testluv: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 1302; Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:13 pmFollowed by: 164 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 539 times; GMAT Score:800

by Testluv » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:43 pm

I teach both LSAT and GMAT as well, and I agree with everything David wrote in his first post (didn't read his second post!).

I would also add that, in addition to the greater complexity and greater number of question types, LSAT is also interested in testing different skills, such as formal logic, ability to paraphrase obfuscatory text, etc.

That said, some of my students report that practicing LSAT sets has helped them improve in GMAT CR. If you are going to do this, it is important to practice only GMAT question types (assumption, stn/wkn, inference, paradox, role of statement/boldfact, and, marginally, flaw). It is also important not to practice on question types that are testing technical formal logic skills. Many LSAT inference questions, for example, involve heavy formal logic.

Kaplan Teacher in Toronto

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swargupta: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 4; Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:43 am

by swargupta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:26 pm

Testluv wrote:I teach both LSAT and GMAT as well, and I agree with everything David wrote in his first post (didn't read his second post!).

I would also add that, in addition to the greater complexity and greater number of question types, LSAT is also interested in testing different skills, such as formal logic, ability to paraphrase obfuscatory text, etc.

That said, some of my students report that practicing LSAT sets has helped them improve in GMAT CR. If you are going to do this, it is important to practice only GMAT question types (assumption, stn/wkn, inference, paradox, role of statement/boldfact, and, marginally, flaw). It is also important not to practice on question types that are testing technical formal logic skills. Many LSAT inference questions, for example, involve heavy formal logic.

Thanks David and Testluv,

I want to ask you some questions -

1. If I go with not going for LSAT questions, then what do I do to go for difficult questions? I have completed with OG 4 books, Kaplan 800 for CR. For SC, I have completed with OG 4 books, Kaplan 800, and 1000 SC. And for RC I have completed with OG books, Kaplan 800. I want to go for more and more practice. Since I do not wish to fall short of any kind of preparation.

According to my schedule, I still have 10 days before I start for ny test and I wish to stick to this schedule since I feel that I am not prepared to the mark that one needs to prepare in order to fall into upper 700 mark.

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swargupta: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 4; Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:43 am

by swargupta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:58 pm

Testluv wrote:I teach both LSAT and GMAT as well, and I agree with everything David wrote in his first post (didn't read his second post!).

I would also add that, in addition to the greater complexity and greater number of question types, LSAT is also interested in testing different skills, such as formal logic, ability to paraphrase obfuscatory text, etc.

That said, some of my students report that practicing LSAT sets has helped them improve in GMAT CR. If you are going to do this, it is important to practice only GMAT question types (assumption, stn/wkn, inference, paradox, role of statement/boldfact, and, marginally, flaw). It is also important not to practice on question types that are testing technical formal logic skills. Many LSAT inference questions, for example, involve heavy formal logic.

Sir one more question,

Have your students referred LSAT-RC as well? Did it help them? If yes, are the questions in LSAT-RC different from / similar to GMAT-RC? If there are some questions similar, what are they?

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David@VeritasPrep: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2193; Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:30 pmFollowed by: 512 members; Location: Vermont and Boston, MA; Thanked: 1186 times; GMAT Score:770

by David@VeritasPrep » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:05 pm

LSAT reading comp is definitely more difficult, but not so different from the GMAT as the LSAT critical reasoning is. I would always use the GMAC official guide materials first, but when these are exhausted my opinion is that LSAT reading comp could be interesting and even worthwhile. Just remember not to confuse what is LSAT with what is GMAT! Maybe save some official GMAT passages for just before the test or review some that you have already done so that you can get the right ideas in your mind. Anyone those are my thoughts....

Have fun!

David

Veritas Prep | GMAT Instructor

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