BREAKING: Target Test Prep releases Brand New 2026 On Demand GMAT prep course

Redeem

Pronoun reference confusion!!!Gmat gurus please help!!!

This topic has expert replies
Post new topic Locked
Previous Topic Next Topic
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am
Thanked: 2 times

Pronoun reference confusion!!!Gmat gurus please help!!!

by aiming800 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:42 am
Hi Guys,

I need some help understand the below SC.I have chosen D as the answer as i thought that it is the best of the lot,but i still think that D has a pronoun reference error as the pronoun they in the option may refer to employers as well as to workers.
Please correct me if i am wrong,but do so with explanations.

I would appreciate if few of the gmat gurus can share some gyan about how to tackle this pronoun reference thing in GMAT, as i found a few correct official answers which seem to have the pronoun reference confusion.
Masters please guide me if i am missing some concept about the pronoun reference error.

Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.
(A) provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(B) to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(C) provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can
(E) provide workers with unpaid leave and
Top
Source: — Sentence Correction |
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:50 pm
Thanked: 1 times

by muralithe1 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:05 pm
hey Buddy,
Please look for the link
"https://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-subjuncti ... 14-15.html"
Stacey has given some good explanation.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 11:48 pm
Thanked: 215 times
Followed by:7 members

by kvcpk » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:25 pm
Excerpt from Ron:
the gmat will tolerate pronoun ambiguity when both of the following are satisfied:
1. the intended referent makes much more sense than do the other possible referents,
and
2. the intended referent is PARALLEL TO THE PRONOUN, and the other possible referents are NOT parallel to the pronoun.
Hope this helps!!
Top
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am
Thanked: 2 times

by aiming800 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:47 am
kvcpk wrote:Excerpt from Ron:
the gmat will tolerate pronoun ambiguity when both of the following are satisfied:
1. the intended referent makes much more sense than do the other possible referents,
and
2. the intended referent is PARALLEL TO THE PRONOUN, and the other possible referents are NOT parallel to the pronoun.
Hope this helps!!
Thanks kvcpk for the reply,
Could you please provide me the link to the article/post in which Ron has explained the above.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 11:48 pm
Thanked: 215 times
Followed by:7 members

by kvcpk » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:25 am
aiming800 wrote:
kvcpk wrote:Excerpt from Ron:
the gmat will tolerate pronoun ambiguity when both of the following are satisfied:
1. the intended referent makes much more sense than do the other possible referents,
and
2. the intended referent is PARALLEL TO THE PRONOUN, and the other possible referents are NOT parallel to the pronoun.
Hope this helps!!
Thanks kvcpk for the reply,
Could you please provide me the link to the article/post in which Ron has explained the above.
Unfortunately, I dont remember. I took the take-away and left the question. I will PM you in case I find it.

Cheers,
Praveen
Top
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am
Thanked: 2 times

by aiming800 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:01 am
Thanks Praveen,

As my doubt is not yet fully cleared,may i request Stacey or Ron to help me on this.


Hi Stacey/Ron,

I hope you read this post and help me understand in detail about the pronoun reference ambiguity in GMAT questions.

This pronoun ambiguity is really killing me:-)

Thanks,
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1893
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 11:48 pm
Thanked: 215 times
Followed by:7 members

by kvcpk » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:03 am
aiming800 wrote:Thanks Praveen,

As my doubt is not yet fully cleared,may i request Stacey or Ron to help me on this.


Hi Stacey/Ron,

I hope you read this post and help me understand in detail about the pronoun reference ambiguity in GMAT questions.

This pronoun ambiguity is really killing me:-)

Thanks,
Hi,
If you want Ron/Stacey to answer this post, send a PM to them with this link.
They will answer when they login.
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 2228
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanked: 639 times
Followed by:694 members
GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:47 am
I would be happy to help, but I don't see a source posted. Please cite the source (author) of the problem and then I can answer!
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

Stacey Koprince
GMAT Instructor
Director of Online Community
Manhattan GMAT

Contributor to Beat The GMAT!

Learn more about me
Top
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am
Thanked: 2 times

by aiming800 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:18 am
Hi Stacey,

First of all,i really apologise for the late reply. I have limited access to the
internet since last few days.Now coming back to your question,the above sc
question is from 1000sc document.

I think this pronoun ambiguity error is something in which i need some serious
help.

i used to think that a pronoun can refer to any noun preceding it,noun which
agreeswith the pronoun in number(singular/plural) and gender(m/f/neutral)but
after going through the explanations in several forums for few pronoun ambiguity
related sc questions, i now believe there is more to the rules related to the pronoun
reference.

You can go through the below link to see the reply from Tommy Wallach, who is
also a manhattan GMAT instructor,to the above posted sc question.


https://gmatclub.com/forum/100-sc-91476.html

Please find his reply with regards to the option D:

(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can

ANSWER: This has the "to", and correctly places the pronoun "they", so that we know
it's the workers who will be caring for their children.


I didn't understand how "they" is correctly placed here. But I believe that there has to
be some structure related rule. Could you please explain if there is any. I know that
ideally I should post my query, regarding this explanation, to Tommy, but I thought as
you both represent Manhattan GMAT, it is ok if I ask you about this and moreover I
always liked your explanations � so I hope you don't mind.


I have also seen quite a few OG questions the answers to which contain a
pronoun reference ambiguity if we evaluate them only on the basis of the above
stated rule(i.e; agreement on the basis of only number and gender). If you want
me to post those OG questions, I will post them.

To sum up, I will say that if you could provide me a consolidated set of rules
which i need to consider while tackling the pronoun reference error and explain
them with few examples,it will be of great great help.


Thanks
Top
User avatar
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:36 am
Location: Syracuse, NY
Thanked: 23 times
Followed by:4 members
GMAT Score:740

by tomada » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:36 pm
I'm no expert, but I thought that, if there are multiple antecedents (Congress, employers, workers), the pronoun (they) refers to the closest one which, in this case, is workers.

aiming800 wrote:Hi Stacey,

First of all,i really apologise for the late reply. I have limited access to the
internet since last few days.Now coming back to your question,the above sc
question is from 1000sc document.

I think this pronoun ambiguity error is something in which i need some serious
help.

i used to think that a pronoun can refer to any noun preceding it,noun which
agreeswith the pronoun in number(singular/plural) and gender(m/f/neutral)but
after going through the explanations in several forums for few pronoun ambiguity
related sc questions, i now believe there is more to the rules related to the pronoun
reference.

You can go through the below link to see the reply from Tommy Wallach, who is
also a manhattan GMAT instructor,to the above posted sc question.


https://gmatclub.com/forum/100-sc-91476.html

Please find his reply with regards to the option D:

(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can

ANSWER: This has the "to", and correctly places the pronoun "they", so that we know
it's the workers who will be caring for their children.


I didn't understand how "they" is correctly placed here. But I believe that there has to
be some structure related rule. Could you please explain if there is any. I know that
ideally I should post my query, regarding this explanation, to Tommy, but I thought as
you both represent Manhattan GMAT, it is ok if I ask you about this and moreover I
always liked your explanations � so I hope you don't mind.


I have also seen quite a few OG questions the answers to which contain a
pronoun reference ambiguity if we evaluate them only on the basis of the above
stated rule(i.e; agreement on the basis of only number and gender). If you want
me to post those OG questions, I will post them.

To sum up, I will say that if you could provide me a consolidated set of rules
which i need to consider while tackling the pronoun reference error and explain
them with few examples,it will be of great great help.


Thanks
I'm really old, but I'll never be too old to become more educated.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:46 am
Thanked: 27 times
GMAT Score:570

by reply2spg » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:34 pm
'require' always followed by 'that' or 'to'

Eliminate A, C and E.

Between B and D. You have an issue with pronoun 'they'. You are not sure whom 'they' refers to?

If you read question carefully then you can easily understand that 'they' must refer to 'employee'. Here we have 2 nouns which can be used as antecedant for 'they'. Let's replace 'they' with those 2 nouns.

Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that employers can care for sick or newborn children.

Why employers care about the children? does this make sense?

Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that workers/b] can care for sick or newborn children.

Workers will take care of the children? does this make sense? Yes. Means 'they' refer to 'workers'. In these kind of cases go by meaning and see which obvious noun can be referred by pronoun.

For more knowledge see Ron's Thrusday's with Ron on Manhatten site.
aiming800 wrote: Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.
(A) provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(B) to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(C) provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can
(E) provide workers with unpaid leave and
Sudhanshu
(have lot of things to learn from all of you)
Top
User avatar
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:40 pm
Thanked: 2 times

by nipunkathuria » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:08 am
reply2spg wrote:'require' always followed by 'that' or 'to'

Eliminate A, C and E.

Between B and D. You have an issue with pronoun 'they'. You are not sure whom 'they' refers to?

If you read question carefully then you can easily understand that 'they' must refer to 'employee'. Here we have 2 nouns which can be used as antecedant for 'they'. Let's replace 'they' with those 2 nouns.

Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that employers can care for sick or newborn children.

Why employers care about the children? does this make sense?

Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that workers/b] can care for sick or newborn children.

Workers will take care of the children? does this make sense? Yes. Means 'they' refer to 'workers'. In these kind of cases go by meaning and see which obvious noun can be referred by pronoun.

For more knowledge see Ron's Thrusday's with Ron on Manhatten site.
aiming800 wrote: Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.
(A) provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(B) to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(C) provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can
(E) provide workers with unpaid leave and




Hi,

I m not sure whether we can eliminate an option based on this reason.
Can u plz put some light into the same.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:38 pm
Thanked: 127 times
Followed by:14 members

by gmat_perfect » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:22 am
aiming800 wrote:Hi Guys,

I need some help understand the below SC.I have chosen D as the answer as i thought that it is the best of the lot,but i still think that D has a pronoun reference error as the pronoun they in the option may refer to employers as well as to workers.
Please correct me if i am wrong,but do so with explanations.

I would appreciate if few of the gmat gurus can share some gyan about how to tackle this pronoun reference thing in GMAT, as i found a few correct official answers which seem to have the pronoun reference confusion.
Masters please guide me if i am missing some concept about the pronoun reference error.

Congress is debating a bill be requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.
(A) provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(B) to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
(C) provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
(D) to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can
(E) provide workers with unpaid leave and
Require can be used in the following ways:

1. Require that X be Y.
2. Require X to do Y.

==> This rule leaves us to the option B and D.

Think about B:

provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.

"so as to care" is the problem. Who cares? Is it the workers or the employers or the congress?
We are not sure who cares.

That leaves us to D, the best answer.

Now come to the issue of Pronoun "they"

Pronoun ambiguity is NOT an absolute rule. A pronoun will be ok if any one of the following conditions is met:

1. The antecedent is grammatically parallel with the pronoun.
2. The intended reference is the only reference that fits in the context.

Now, check for the probable antecedents.

They could refer to "the employers" or "the workers"--both of which are objects NOT subjects. So, they are NOT parallel with the pronoun 'they'.

Now check for the reference in context.

"so that they can care"

Substitute the "they" with the two probable antecedents.

==> "so that the employers can care for sick or newborn children"
----> Does it make sense? It means that the employers will provide unpaid leave to the workers and will care the children.
It does not make sense.

==> So that the workers can care--make sense.

So,the second test confirms that "they" refers to "the workers".

Hope, it helps.
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 2228
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanked: 639 times
Followed by:694 members
GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:41 am
The particular problem above has been discussed extensively here (including the pronoun issue):

https://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-subjunctive-t19314.html

There are 3 pages of post, but look through it all. The pronoun issue is a bit trickier on this one because of the idiom in the middle of everything.

aiming800, in general on pronouns, there are two main things to check: logic and structure.

If a particular noun logically makes sense, then it is a good candidate for the antecedent.
If a particular noun makes sense structurally, then it is a good candidate for the antecedent.

If, in one sentence, one noun makes sense logically, but another matches structurally, there's ambiguity.

Studying is important in order to do well on the GMAT, but it isn't the most important part of your application.

In the above sentence, the "it" most logically refers to the GMAT because the GMAT is one part of your application.

Structurally, though, the "it" appears to be referring to "studying," because both "studying" and "it" are the subjects of their respective clauses.

It isn't *required* for the pronoun to function in the same was as the noun - they don't HAVE to both be subjects - but when you have two clauses, and the subject of one is a pronoun (in particular, when it's the second clause), then the structural expectation is that the pronoun is referring to the (parallel) structure in the first clause: the subject.

As I said, the specific sentence above is a bit more complicated than just this - check that other thread for details.
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

Stacey Koprince
GMAT Instructor
Director of Online Community
Manhattan GMAT

Contributor to Beat The GMAT!

Learn more about me
Top
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am
Thanked: 2 times

by aiming800 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:51 pm
Hi Stacey,
Thanks a lot for you reply.

I have gone through the link provided by you and from the whole discussion what I understood is that in this particular question although the pronoun 'they' structurally refers to employers , logically it makes more sense with workers. So we can say that an ambiguity indeed exists. But again because of the use of 'so that' in the option D 'they' points more towards the workers. Please correct me if I am wrong with my understanding.

Now speaking in general, I would request you to give me few other examples where with the help of structure evaluation we can eliminate the pronoun ambiguity. Actually I want to understand that what are the possible structures we can think of when we evaluate a pronoun.

Few of the cases I could think of are as below

Case 1: If the pronoun in question is a subject of the subordinate clause,it should structurally refer to the subject of the corresponding main clause.

Case 2:If the pronoun in question is a object in the subordinate clause, it should structurally refer to the object of the corresponding main clause.


I think my understanding is a little vague,but I hope you can give some examples and make it clear.


Thanks,
Top
Post new topic Locked