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SC: Subjunctive

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by brijesh » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:32 am
stop@800 wrote:Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.

A provide workers with unpaid leave so as to (subject is not clear who is taking care of sick or newborn children.)
B to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to (I think preposition is also wrong here..experts comments pls...which preposition fits here.)
C provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
D to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can (i think the right ans..)
E provide workers with unpaid leave and
( due to and in OE--meaning is : "the employers has to do two tasks, the first one is to provide workers with unpaid leave and the second is to take care for sick or newborn children" )

experts opinoin..pls
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by hardik.jadeja » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:57 am
kvcpk wrote:
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to reply. I don't see a source listed above; please cite the source and I will be happy to reply!
I chose B because "they" in option D is ambiguous.. Can you please let me know why D is the rite option?
"so as to" is never right on GMAT. "they" refers to "workers".
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by kvcpk » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:14 am
hardik.jadeja wrote:"so as to" is never right on GMAT. "they" refers to "workers".
How can we be sure that "they" refers to workers? Why cant it refer to "certain employers"?
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by martin.jonson007 » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:25 am
D is correct...!
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by Haaress » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:11 pm
Between B and D, I would have opted for B over D..why?

According to MGMAT, "so.....as to" is idiomatic; however, its been an issue that the testers of GMAT have flip flopped on.

I guess we should get this back to Stacey for further analysis.

So Stacey, what say you?
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by er_priyankajolly » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:39 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to reply. I don't see a source listed above; please cite the source and I will be happy to reply!
Stacy can you please tell why B is incorrect.I have mentioned the source of this question. Isnt "they" in option D ambiguous.It can refer to employers or wrokers.
Please respond
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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:54 pm
We're not supposed to post OG questions online. I can discuss the principles generally, though.

For the idiom "so... as to," one correct usage might be "The sauce was SO hot AS TO burn my mouth." The meaning here is that the sauce was SO (something) that, as a result, the SAUCE caused (something else to happen).

It is also *possible* to use "so as to" to mean "in order to," as in "she drank coffee so as to stay awake." She <did something> so that, as a result SHE could either do something else or have something else happen. In this construction, the SUBJECT (she) is the thing trying to stay awake, not the coffee, right?

If you are checking for correct usage, you'd want to check whether the meaning fits either of these constructions.

The school district is debating a bill requiring certain teachers to provide certain students with less homework so as to have more time for recess.

What are they debating? "a bill requiring certain teachers to provide certain students with less homework"

so: The school district is debating <something> so as to have more time for recess.
What do you think? :)

Or:
The school district is debating a bill requiring certain teachers to provide certain students with less homework so that they can have more time for recess.

"so that" indicates some action or something done for a certain purpose. eg: I study so that I can get a good grade.

the "purpose" is "the can have more time for recess."
the action to achieve that purpose is "less homework."
If less homework, then more time for recess.

Who's getting less homework? The students or the teachers? Whoever's getting less homework is the same one getting more time for recess.
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by akhpad » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 am
Many Many Thanks Stacey
Stacey Koprince wrote: Who's getting less homework? The students or the teachers? Whoever's getting less homework is the same one getting more time for recess.
As this is referring to students, SO THAT should be correct. CORRECT
if it had refereed to teachers, SO AS TO would have used.

Am I right? Can you please confirm my understanding?
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by uwhusky » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:33 am
Hi Stacey,

Can we say "The school district is debating a bill requiring certain teachers provide certain students with less homework so as to have more time for recess. " instead of to provide?

Is provide by itself lacking tense without to?
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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:29 am
uwhusky wrote:Hi Stacey,

Can we say "The school district is debating a bill requiring certain teachers provide certain students with less homework so as to have more time for recess. " instead of to provide?

Is provide by itself lacking tense without to?
In the sentence above, to provide must be used.

As noted in an earlier post, the following idioms are acceptable:

X requires Y to do something
X requires that Y do something

X requires Y do something is not acceptable.

Hope this helps!
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by tomada » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:41 am
I chose D because, logically, they necessarily refers to the workers.

If they refers to the employers, then the sentence is effectively stating that employers will be required to provide unpaid leave to workers so that the employers can take care of sick or newborn children. I can't imagine that the employers would say to the workers "Here, take some unpaid leave so that we can take care of your sick or newborn children".
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by gmat_perfect » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:46 am
stop@800 wrote:Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers provide workers with unpaid leave so as to care for sick or newborn children.

A provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
B to provide workers with unpaid leave so as to
C provide workers with unpaid leave in order that they
D to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can
E provide workers with unpaid leave and
Theory:

1. Require XX to do YY--is the correct idiom.
2. Require that XX DO YY.

3. The GMAT will tolerate pronoun ambiguity if both of the following are satisfied:
3.1. The intended referent makes much more sense than do the other possible referents, and
3.2. The intended referent is PARALLEL TO THE PRONOUN, and the other possible referents are NOT parallel to the pronoun.
4. So as to is not liked by GMAT.
 [Rule 3 is courtesy by RON]

Application:

A, C, and E can be eaily eliminated on the basis of the rule 1 and 2.

B can be ruled out on the basis of so as to.

D, the best choice, maintains the rule 3.1. So, D is the best choice.

Thanks.
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by gmat_perfect » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:51 am
tomada wrote:I chose D because, logically, they necessarily refers to the workers.

If they refers to the employers, then the sentence is effectively stating that employers will be required to provide unpaid leave to workers so that the employers can take care of sick or newborn children. I can't imagine that the employers would say to the workers "Here, take some unpaid leave so that we can take care of your sick or newborn children".
Yes, this analysis has merit. It can be said that the SC questions also have some sort of critical reasoning test.
Thanks.
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by Stacey Koprince » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:47 am
As this is referring to students, SO THAT should be correct.
Yes.
if it had refereed to teachers, SO AS TO would have used.
You could argue that SO X AS TO Y refers to either the teachers or the school district. Either way, not what we want. :)
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by akhpad » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:09 am
Thanks Stacey. I never found such explanation in any materials what I had.

Is following sentence correct? SO X AS TO Y

The Emperor Augustus, it appears, commissioned an idealized sculpture portrait, the features of which are SO unrealistic AS TO constitute what one scholar calls an "artificial face."

I believe that this is correct because here Y refers to "the features".
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