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usage of that

Expert replies
by ayushiiitm » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:57 am
According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.

(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating

OA is E



My take


I think that use of 'that' in D or E makes it sound that there is some specific canon which shoots dead chicken and has proved itself to be useful.....while I think it could have been any canon

and thats why i went for 2-3 split and chose between A, B or C
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Source: — Sentence Correction |

by martin.jonson007 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:19 am
Nice ques...!

In D, Itself is redundant

i believe there must be other reason too to reject it...

E is flawless...!
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by ayushiiitm » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:46 am
martin.jonson007 wrote:Nice ques...!

In D, Itself is redundant

i believe there must be other reason too to reject it...

E is flawless...!
my concern is to get to know about my 2-3 split........

why choice containing that was chosen......
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by martin.jonson007 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:54 am
ayushiiitm wrote:
martin.jonson007 wrote:Nice ques...!

In D, Itself is redundant

i believe there must be other reason too to reject it...

E is flawless...!
my concern is to get to know about my 2-3 split........

why choice containing that was chosen......
Good.. :)

this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!
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by ayushiiitm » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:24 am
martin.jonson007 wrote:
ayushiiitm wrote:
martin.jonson007 wrote:Nice ques...!

In D, Itself is redundant

i believe there must be other reason too to reject it...

E is flawless...!
my concern is to get to know about my 2-3 split........

why choice containing that was chosen......
Good.. :)

this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!

Is that so?
I think there must be some substantial reasoning

btw shooting here clearly modifies canon...since its a present participle....right?

so why use 'that' to modify canon?
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by martin.jonson007 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:38 am
ayushiiitm wrote:
martin.jonson007 wrote:
ayushiiitm wrote:
martin.jonson007 wrote:Nice ques...!

In D, Itself is redundant

i believe there must be other reason too to reject it...

E is flawless...!
my concern is to get to know about my 2-3 split........

why choice containing that was chosen......
Good.. :)

this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!

Is that so?
I think there must be some substantial reasoning

btw shooting here clearly modifies canon...since its a present participle....right?

so why use 'that' to modify canon?
Mate,

wat i knw , i explained...

Rest , Experts can comments wat they think right....
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by akhpad » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:57 am
Source: Manhattan GMAT SC 4th Ed, Page No 208

V-A-N rule

You are choosing verb form of action. I believe so.

Other use of that but I believe this is not the case here.
----------------------
In general, you can't say "the X that NOUN VERB" unless X is the direct object of the VERB. By definition, this means that you should be able to turn around the sentence so that it says "NOUN VERB X".
James hit the ball => the ball that James hit.
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:04 am
ayushiiitm wrote:According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.

(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating

OA is E



My take


I think that use of 'that' in D or E makes it sound that there is some specific canon which shoots dead chicken and has proved itself to be useful.....while I think it could have been any canon

and thats why i went for 2-3 split and chose between A, B or C
Don't look for subtle reasons to eliminate answers; look for common -- and undebatable -- reasons.

Answer choices A, B, C and D each contain an idiom error.

If you want to say that GMATGuru Mitch has helped you to prepare for the GMAT, the following are acceptable:

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful to me.

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful in preparing me for the GMAT.

My advice can be helpful to you, but my advice can't be helpful to an action; my advice is helpful in the performance of an action.

In the SC above, only answer choice E gives us the correct idiom helpful in:

...a cannon that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating what kind of damage can result...

The correct answer is E.

A lesson to take away:

Whenever you see prepositions or other little words change in the answers, look for idiom errors. Make sure that each answer choice is using the correct preposition or little word.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I have worked with students based in the US, Australia, Taiwan, China, Tajikistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia -- a long list of countries.
My students have been admitted to HBS, CBS, Tuck, Yale, Stern, Fuqua -- a long list of top programs.

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I unlock the best way for YOU to solve problems.

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by martin.jonson007 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:12 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
ayushiiitm wrote:According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.

(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating

OA is E



My take


I think that use of 'that' in D or E makes it sound that there is some specific canon which shoots dead chicken and has proved itself to be useful.....while I think it could have been any canon

and thats why i went for 2-3 split and chose between A, B or C
Don't look for subtle reasons to eliminate answers; look for common -- and undebatable -- reasons.

Answer choices A, B, C and D each contain an idiom error.

If you want to say that GMATGuru Mitch has helped you to prepare for the GMAT, the following are acceptable:

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful to me.

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful in preparing me for the GMAT.

My advice can be helpful to you, but my advice can't be helpful to an action; my advice is helpful in the performance of an action.

In the SC above, only answer choice E gives us the correct idiom helpful in:

...a cannon that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating what kind of damage can result...

The correct answer is E.


Wat do You day abt this explanation.... this is wat You yold us to apply...

=================


this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!

=================
Join the discussion

by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:25 am
martin.jonson007 wrote:
Wat do You day abt this explanation.... this is wat You yold us to apply...

=================


this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!

=================
I think that your reasoning is correct: the cannon probably isn't constantly shooting the dead chickens, so that shoots is better.

However, I still recommend that you look first for a more common and less subtle error, such as the idiom error discussed above. Someone could argue that the cannon might be constantly shooting dead chickens at airplanes. (If so, please remind me not to board a plane scheduled to fly over that particular state.) The idiom error can't be debated.
Private tutor exclusively for the GMAT and GRE, with over 20 years of experience.
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I have worked with students based in the US, Australia, Taiwan, China, Tajikistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia -- a long list of countries.
My students have been admitted to HBS, CBS, Tuck, Yale, Stern, Fuqua -- a long list of top programs.

As a tutor, I don't simply teach you how I would approach problems.
I unlock the best way for YOU to solve problems.

For more information, please email me (Mitch Hunt) at [email protected].
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by martin.jonson007 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:36 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
martin.jonson007 wrote:
Wat do You day abt this explanation.... this is wat You yold us to apply...

=================


this hpnd b'coz shooting is not happening continiously....

eg. i like the book sitting on table -> CORRECT , b'coz book is sitting on table continiously

the hairs of people who shampoo daily are better than those who don't -> CORRECT but you can't say SHAMPOOING

as they are not continiously shampooing.....

okie... same here...

cannon shoots but NOT CONTINIOUSLY...

so u can't say SHOOTING...

that's why A, b and C get rejected...!

=================
I think that your reasoning is correct: the cannon probably isn't constantly shooting the dead chickens, so that shoots is better.

However, I still recommend that you look first for a more common and less subtle error, such as the idiom error discussed above. Someone could argue that the cannon might be constantly shooting dead chickens at airplanes. (If so, please remind me not to board a plane scheduled to fly over that particular state.) The idiom error can't be debated.
:)

Thanks GMATGuruNY... :)
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by FightWithGMAT » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:49 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
ayushiiitm wrote:According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.

(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating

OA is E



My take


I think that use of 'that' in D or E makes it sound that there is some specific canon which shoots dead chicken and has proved itself to be useful.....while I think it could have been any canon

and thats why i went for 2-3 split and chose between A, B or C
Don't look for subtle reasons to eliminate answers; look for common -- and undebatable -- reasons.

Answer choices A, B, C and D each contain an idiom error.

If you want to say that GMATGuru Mitch has helped you to prepare for the GMAT, the following are acceptable:

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful to me.

GMATGuru's advice has been helpful in preparing me for the GMAT.

My advice can be helpful to you, but my advice can't be helpful to an action; my advice is helpful in the performance of an action.

In the SC above, only answer choice E gives us the correct idiom helpful in:

...a cannon that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating what kind of damage can result...

The correct answer is E.

A lesson to take away:

Whenever you see prepositions or other little words change in the answers, look for idiom errors. Make sure that each answer choice is using the correct preposition or little word.
Hello Mitch,

Which usage is correct?

The forum helped me to prepare for GMAT
The forum helped me in preparing GMAT
The forum is helpful to me to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful to me in preparing for GMAT
The forum is helpful to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful in preparing for GMAT
The forum is helpful for me to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful for me in preparing for GMAT

Your explanation could be helpful to all the forum users :)
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:40 am
FightWithGMAT wrote:
Hello Mitch,

Which usage is correct?

The forum helped me to prepare for GMAT
The forum helped me in preparing GMAT
The forum is helpful to me to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful to me in preparing for GMAT
The forum is helpful to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful in preparing for GMAT
The forum is helpful for me to prepare for GMAT
The forum is helpful for me in preparing for GMAT

Your explanation could be helpful to all the forum users :)
The following are correct:

The BTG forum helped me to prepare for the GMAT.

The BTG forum proved helpful in preparing for the GMAT.

You also could say:

As I prepared for the GMAT, I found it helpful to visit the BTG forum.

Hope this helps!
Private tutor exclusively for the GMAT and GRE, with over 20 years of experience.
Followed here and elsewhere by over 1900 test-takers.
I have worked with students based in the US, Australia, Taiwan, China, Tajikistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia -- a long list of countries.
My students have been admitted to HBS, CBS, Tuck, Yale, Stern, Fuqua -- a long list of top programs.

As a tutor, I don't simply teach you how I would approach problems.
I unlock the best way for YOU to solve problems.

For more information, please email me (Mitch Hunt) at [email protected].
Student Review #1
Student Review #2
Student Review #3
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