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Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a stro

by RBBmba@2014 » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:16 am
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

(A) one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
(B) one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
(C) they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
(D) they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
(E) they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,

OA: B

@ Experts - I'm sort of lost with this SC. Kindly share your DETAIL analysis to help me understand it. Much thanks in advance.
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by vikrambansal » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:24 pm
C, D & E: They (plural) doesn't match with starfish (singular)

A: one arm is lost it (starfish) quickly replaces it (arm). Double usage of it is creating confusion

B: Correct
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by prachi18oct » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:51 pm
vikrambansal wrote:C, D & E: They (plural) doesn't match with starfish (singular)

A: one arm is lost it (starfish) quickly replaces it (arm). Double usage of it is creating confusion

B: Correct
This is wrong solution.
Starfish is used as plural. See the verb used in the sentence "have". So any option that references Starfish with singular pronoun ("it") is wrong and can be eliminated.
A & D are out.
AMong BCE, only B makes sense with "and" to join two gerunds.
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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:47 am
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,
In A, the first it (singular) does not agree with its intended antecedent, starfish (plural). Eliminate A.

In D, the second they (plural) does not agree with its intended antecedent, arm (singular). Eliminate D.

In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that the lost arm is replaced sometimes NOT BY the animal or sometimes WITHOUT the animal.
Eliminate C and E.

The correct answer is B.

Where a modifier is placed affects MEANING.
Always notice when a modifier such as SOMETIMES changes position in the answer choices.
In the OA, sometimes correctly modifies overcompensating and growing:
If one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING AND GROWING an extra one or two.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:09 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

A one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and
B one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating and
C they lose one arm they quickly replace it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating,
D they lose one arm they are quickly replaced, with the animal sometimes overcompensating,
E they lose one arm it is quickly replaced, sometimes with the animal overcompensating,
In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that the lost arm is replaced sometimes NOT BY the animal or sometimes WITHOUT the animal.
Eliminate C and E.
@ GMATGuruNY - Not able to understand your above explanation thoroughly. Can you please help ?

Also, are there any other NOTABLE ERRORS in C and E ?
GMATGuruNY wrote: In the OA, sometimes correctly modifies overcompensating and growing:
If one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING AND GROWING an extra one or two.
A quick questions on the OA - isn't use of with BIT AWKWARD in Passive Voice? Do we have any such instances in other Official Questions ?

Generally, we use BY in Passive Voice. Right ?
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:27 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote:In C and E, sometimes by the animal and sometimes with the animal imply a nonsensical meaning: that the lost arm is replaced sometimes NOT BY the animal or sometimes WITHOUT the animal.
Eliminate C and E.
@ GMATGuruNY - Not able to understand your above explanation thoroughly. Can you please help ?
C: sometimes by the animal
Conveyed meaning:
Only SOMETIMES is the lost arm replaced BY THE ANIMAL.
Not the intended meaning.
Clearly, the animal is ALWAYS responsible for replacing the arm.

E: sometimes with the animal
Conveyed meaning:
Only SOMETIMES is the lost arm replaced WITH THE ANIMAL.
Not the intended meaning.
Clearly, the animal is ALWAYS responsible for replacing the arm.

Since sometimes is intended to modify overcompensating, it should be positioned AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to overcompensating.
OA: with the animal sometimes overcompensating
Here, it is crystal clear that the animal is SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING when the lost arm is replaced.
Also, are there any other NOTABLE ERRORS in C and E ?
C and E: they lose one arm
Here, they serves to refer to starfish.
This wording seems to imply that starfish -- meaning the ENTIRE SPECIES -- all lose the same arm.
Not the intended meaning.
GMATGuruNY wrote: In the OA, sometimes correctly modifies overcompensating and growing:
If one arm is lost it is quickly replaced, with the animal SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING AND GROWING an extra one or two.
A quick questions on the OA - isn't use of with BIT AWKWARD in Passive Voice? Do we have any such instances in other Official Questions ?

Generally, we use BY in Passive Voice. Right ?
by the animal would be appropriate if the intent were to discuss WHAT replaces the arm:
Is the arm replaced BY THE ANIMAL or BY SOMETHING ELSE?
But common sense tells us that the arm is replaced BY THE ANIMAL.

The intent here is not to discuss WHAT replaces the arm but to convey HOW the arm is replaced.
To convey this meaning, COMMA + with is appropriate.
HOW is the arm replaced?
WITH THE ANIMAL SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:31 am
GMATGuruNY wrote: C: sometimes by the animal
Conveyed meaning:
Only SOMETIMES is the lost arm replaced BY THE ANIMAL.
Not the intended meaning.
Clearly, the animal is ALWAYS responsible for replacing the arm.

E: sometimes with the animal
Conveyed meaning:
Only SOMETIMES is the lost arm replaced WITH THE ANIMAL.
Not the intended meaning.
Clearly, the animal is ALWAYS responsible for replacing the arm.

Since sometimes is intended to modify overcompensating, it should be positioned AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to overcompensating.
OA: with the animal sometimes overcompensating
Here, it is crystal clear that the animal is SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING when the lost arm is replaced.
Got this part...
GMATGuruNY wrote:
Also, are there any other NOTABLE ERRORS in C and E ?
C and E: they lose one arm
Here, they serves to refer to starfish.
This wording seems to imply that starfish -- meaning the ENTIRE SPECIES -- all lose the same arm.
Not the intended meaning.
Isn't missing and at the end of UNDERLINED part an ERROR in both C & E (as and is present in the question stem) ?

(Nevertheless, curious to know that is and really required here ? Doesn't the phrase GROWING an extra one or two actually represent the action of OVERCOMPENSATING ? )
GMATGuruNY wrote:
A quick questions on the OA - isn't use of with BIT AWKWARD in Passive Voice? Do we have any such instances in other Official Questions ?

Generally, we use BY in Passive Voice. Right ?
by the animal would be appropriate if the intent were to discuss WHAT replaces the arm:
Is the arm replaced BY THE ANIMAL or BY SOMETHING ELSE?
But common sense tells us that the arm is replaced BY THE ANIMAL.

The intent here is not to discuss WHAT replaces the arm but to convey HOW the arm is replaced.
To convey this meaning, COMMA + with is appropriate.
HOW is the arm replaced?
WITH THE ANIMAL SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING.
To answer HOW is the arm replaced, doesn't BY also work ?
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by GMATGuruNY » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:11 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:
Isn't missing and at the end of UNDERLINED part an ERROR in both C & E (as and is present in the question stem) ?

(Nevertheless, curious to know that is and really required here ? Doesn't the phrase GROWING an extra one or two actually represent the action of OVERCOMPENSATING ? )
Generally, COMMA + VERBing serves to modify the preceding clause -- more specifically, the SUBJECT and VERB of the preceding clause.
C and E: the animal overcompensating, growing an extra one or two.
Here, overcompensating is an ADJECTIVE serving to modify animal.
What KIND Of animal?
The animal OVERCOMPENSATING.
As a result, the animal overcompensating is not a clause but a PHRASE.
The COMMA + VERBing modifier in red cannot serve to modify a phrase.

OA: with the animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two
Here, the purpose of and is to avoid the error discussed directly above.
GMATGuruNY wrote: A quick questions on the OA - isn't use of with BIT AWKWARD in Passive Voice? Do we have any such instances in other Official Questions ?

Generally, we use BY in Passive Voice. Right ?

by the animal would be appropriate if the intent were to discuss WHAT replaces the arm:
Is the arm replaced BY THE ANIMAL or BY SOMETHING ELSE?
But common sense tells us that the arm is replaced BY THE ANIMAL.

The intent here is not to discuss WHAT replaces the arm but to convey HOW the arm is replaced.
To convey this meaning, COMMA + with is appropriate.
HOW is the arm replaced?
WITH THE ANIMAL SOMETIMES OVERCOMPENSATING.
To answer HOW is the arm replaced, doesn't BY also work ?
Incorrect: The arm is quickly replaced, by the animal...
Here, COMMA + by the animal implies that the arm could -- under some circumstances -- be replaced BY SOMETHING ELSE.
Not the intended meaning.
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by ratanvk » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:09 pm
Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

Mitch..
Is 'Have' a wrong tense verb used here. I think it should be has, as the Starfish is singular. Please explain
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by theCEO » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:41 pm
ratanvk wrote:Starfish, with anywhere from five to eight arms, have a strong regenerative ability, and if one arm is lost it quickly replaces it, sometimes by the animal overcompensating and growing an extra one or two.

Mitch..
Is 'Have' a wrong tense verb used here. I think it should be has, as the Starfish is singular. Please explain
starfish is used as a plural word.

Whenever someone is making a general statement about animals, the plural form is often times used.
For example,"Dog has 4 legs" vs "Dogs have 4 legs".
"Dogs have 4 legs" is acceptable and this implies all dogs.
"Dog has 4 legs" would have to be converted to "A dog has 4 legs" to be acceptable.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:32 am
GMATGuruNY wrote: Generally, COMMA + VERBing serves to modify the preceding clause -- more specifically, the SUBJECT and VERB of the preceding clause.
C and E: the animal overcompensating, growing an extra one or two.
.
.
.
As a result, the animal overcompensating is not a clause but a PHRASE.
The COMMA + VERBing modifier in red cannot serve to modify a phrase.
Hi GMATGuruNY,
Got your above explanation. But couple of quick questions -

1. Is this construction ALWAYS considered WRONG in GMAT -- [(preceding clause), VERBing modifier] , VERBing modifier ?

I could be wrong, but I guess, I found such usage in an OA in which the FIRST VERBing modifier simply modifies the preceding clause enclosed in () and the SECOND VERBing modifier modifies the portion within [].

Any thoughts ?

2. Isn't the phrase animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two BIT repetitive ? Because it seems that and connects two ways of replacing the LOST ARM, but both the WAYS appear to occur together -- such occurrence is NOT realistic, I guess! (Though we'll have to accept it as GMAT writes so, still would be curious to know your feedback!)
GMATGuruNY wrote:
RBBmba@2014 wrote: To answer HOW is the arm replaced, doesn't BY also work ?
Incorrect: The arm is quickly replaced, by the animal...
Here, COMMA + by the animal implies that the arm could -- under some circumstances -- be replaced BY SOMETHING ELSE.
Not the intended meaning.
Not able to relate it to this explanation in RED. Can you please help ?
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:54 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: Generally, COMMA + VERBing serves to modify the preceding clause -- more specifically, the SUBJECT and VERB of the preceding clause.
C and E: the animal overcompensating, growing an extra one or two.
.
.
.
As a result, the animal overcompensating is not a clause but a PHRASE.
The COMMA + VERBing modifier in red cannot serve to modify a phrase.
Hi GMATGuruNY,
Got your above explanation. But couple of quick questions -

1. Is this construction ALWAYS considered WRONG in GMAT -- [(preceding clause), VERBing modifier] , VERBing modifier ?

I could be wrong, but I guess, I found such usage in an OA in which the FIRST VERBing modifier simply modifies the preceding clause enclosed in () and the SECOND VERBing modifier modifies the portion within [].

Any thoughts ?
A COMMA + VERBing modifier may not serve to modify another COMMA + VERBing modifier.
But it is possible for two COMMA + VERBing modifiers to be linked only by a comma.
The implication of this construction is that both COMMA + VERBing modifiers serve the SAME FUNCTION: to modify the preceding subject and verb.
For an example of this construction, check my second post here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/can-two-inde ... 83697.html
2. Isn't the phrase animal sometimes overcompensating and growing an extra one or two BIT repetitive ? Because it seems that and connects two ways of replacing the LOST ARM, but both the WAYS appear to occur together -- such occurrence is NOT realistic, I guess! (Though we'll have to accept it as GMAT writes so, still would be curious to know your feedback!)
It could be argued that and serves to connect a MENTAL reaction (overcompensating) to a PHYSICAL reaction (growing).
More likely, the GMAT writers wanted to avoid using one VERBing modifier (growing) to modify another (overcompensating), so they employed and to connect the two modifiers.
Regardless, the usage of and in the OA is considered correct.
RBBmba@2014 wrote: To answer HOW is the arm replaced, doesn't BY also work ?
To express THE PROCESS by which an action is performed, we use by + VERBing:
John made a fortune BY INVESTING wisely.
To express WHO OR WHAT performs an action, we use by + NOUN:
A fortune was made BY JOHN.

In the SC above, it is crystal clear that THE STARFISH replaces the lost arm.
Thus, it is redundant to say that the arm is replaced BY THE ANIMAL.
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by Brent@GMATPrepNow » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:30 am
10,000 posts!
Nice work, Mitch.


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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:57 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
RBBmba@2014 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: Generally, COMMA + VERBing serves to modify the preceding clause -- more specifically, the SUBJECT and VERB of the preceding clause.
C and E: the animal overcompensating, growing an extra one or two.
.
.
.
As a result, the animal overcompensating is not a clause but a PHRASE.
The COMMA + VERBing modifier in red cannot serve to modify a phrase.
Hi GMATGuruNY,
Got your above explanation. But couple of quick questions -

1. Is this construction ALWAYS considered WRONG in GMAT -- [(preceding clause), VERBing modifier] , VERBing modifier ?

I could be wrong, but I guess, I found such usage in an OA in which the FIRST VERBing modifier simply modifies the preceding clause enclosed in () and the SECOND VERBing modifier modifies the portion within [].

Any thoughts ?
A COMMA + VERBing modifier may not serve to modify another COMMA + VERBing modifier.
Gotcha!
GMATGuruNY wrote:But it is possible for two COMMA + VERBing modifiers to be linked only by a comma.
I just would like to know that on GMAT,in such case whether the(SECOND) COMMA + VERBing modifier will, under any circumstance, modify the subject and verb of the preceding MAIN CLAUSE as a whole (while NOT separately modifying another preceding COMMA + VERBing modifier present between it and the PRECEDING MAIN CLAUSE -- as I depicted the construction in my above quote here) ?
GMATGuruNY wrote: To express THE PROCESS by which an action is performed, we use by + VERBing:
John made a fortune BY INVESTING wisely.

In the SC above, it is crystal clear that THE STARFISH replaces the lost arm.
Thus, it is redundant to say that the arm is replaced BY THE ANIMAL.
So, generally we use by + VERBing to express THE PROCESS by which an action is performed, BUT here in this SC, to convey this meaning (re THE PROCESS or HOW the arm is replaced), COMMA + with is appropriate because the reason you mentioned above (in RED). Correct ?
Last edited by RBBmba@2014 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:02 am
Brent@GMATPrepNow wrote:10,000 posts!
Nice work, Mitch.


Brent
Wow! thanks Brent for pointing out and is it THE POST in reply to my query ? :-)

@ Mitch - It's TRULY AWESOME Sir...Much thanks for helping the GMAT aspirants!

Miles to go... :-)
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