Well - a collective noun is not always singular. When the members of the collective noun function as a unit, then the verb will be singular. When they work separately, then the verb will be plural.

Eg:

Singular - The jury agrees that the state prosecutors did not provide enough evidence, so its verdict is not guilty

Plural - The jury disagree about the guilt of the accused and have told the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked.

This becomes more evident if we rephrase to - The members of the jury disagree about the guilt of the accused

When you state - A number of the crowd are - it seems to me that it's a section of the crowd that is going to do something. Hence this would be plural, though I highly doubt that a sentence would begin with " A number of the crowd"

Regards
Anup

Brent@GMATPrepNow wrote:
So, we'd never say "a number of crowd"

Hi thanks for your reply, my issue was with "a number of the crowd", I think what you were saying "a number of crowd", you can interpret it as a number of 'crowds' as in there are several crowds and yes, no one will ever say that!

But my case has 'the' which means a number of people in the crowd. My problem was that I would think a number of people would be plural unless we say 'a number of the crowd' as a unit together in which case should be singular? because the crowd is a collective noun and acts as a unit and therefore singular.

Which is why I am so confused. The definition of 'a number of ...' is plural
the collective noun 'the crowd' is singular
together.....?

anuprajan5 wrote:Well - a collective noun is not always singular. When the members of the collective noun function as a unit, then the verb will be singular. When they work separately, then the verb will be plural.

Eg:

Singular - The jury agrees that the state prosecutors did not provide enough evidence, so its verdict is not guilty

Plural - The jury disagree about the guilt of the accused and have told the judge that they are hopelessly deadlocked.

This becomes more evident if we rephrase to - The members of the jury disagree about the guilt of the accused

When you state - A number of the crowd are - it seems to me that it's a section of the crowd that is going to do something. Hence this would be plural, though I highly doubt that a sentence would begin with " A number of the crowd"

Regards
Anup

Thanks for your reply and explaining some stuff I didn't know. Yes I now understand that a collective noun can act be both singular and plural. But in your example, surely it can be both agree and agrees. How can you tell if they act as unit or separately? Also how can it be disagree? Why is the jury acting separately? Don't they have to come to a decision together and act as one unit?

Also I agree that is is unlikely a sentence starts with 'a number of the crowd' but what if it was 'a number of...' and any collective nouns. We would still have the same problem, how can you know if they are acting together or separately if the additional information was limited?

Many thanks

bolkunt wrote:
Thanks for your reply and explaining some stuff I didn't know. Yes I now understand that a collective noun can act be both singular and plural. But in your example, surely it can be both agree and agrees. How can you tell if they act as unit or separately? Also how can it be disagree? Why is the jury acting separately? Don't they have to come to a decision together and act as one unit?

Also I agree that is is unlikely a sentence starts with 'a number of the crowd' but what if it was 'a number of...' and any collective nouns. We would still have the same problem, how can you know if they are acting together or separately if the additional information was limited?

Many thanks

Well, the unit is not functioning together when they disagree about something. Then the verb becomes plural.

As you have mentioned, they have to come to a decision together. But they can't come to a decision to disagree together

And I guess that's the thing with collective nouns. Once you see one on an Sc question, you need to decide whether it is functioning as a unit or the members are functioning independently.

As for A number of + collective noun. Honestly, I am not the expert here, but I still think it will follow the example you have mentioned - A number of crowd, A number of army etc... They will have to conform to A number of crowds or A number of armies which will then make the verb plural in any case.

Regards
Anup

anuprajan5 wrote:

bolkunt wrote:
Thanks for your reply and explaining some stuff I didn't know. Yes I now understand that a collective noun can act be both singular and plural. But in your example, surely it can be both agree and agrees. How can you tell if they act as unit or separately? Also how can it be disagree? Why is the jury acting separately? Don't they have to come to a decision together and act as one unit?

Also I agree that is is unlikely a sentence starts with 'a number of the crowd' but what if it was 'a number of...' and any collective nouns. We would still have the same problem, how can you know if they are acting together or separately if the additional information was limited?

Many thanks

Well, the unit is not functioning together when they disagree about something. Then the verb becomes plural.

As you have mentioned, they have to come to a decision together. But they can't come to a decision to disagree together

And I guess that's the thing with collective nouns. Once you see one on an Sc question, you need to decide whether it is functioning as a unit or the members are functioning independently.

As for A number of + collective noun. Honestly, I am not the expert here, but I still think it will follow the example you have mentioned - A number of crowd, A number of army etc... They will have to conform to A number of crowds or A number of armies which will then make the verb plural in any case.

Regards
Anup

Thanks for clearing that up!