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Pronouns

Expert replies
by gmatusa2010 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:34 pm
The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam, which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings.
a. which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

b. painted by the artist long before such a vantage point was to become possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those among

c. which he painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than in

d. painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

e. painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those in


Can someone please explain D and E. I've read the official explaination and I still don't understand:


"The pronoun they must stand for the entire noun phrase "The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam." It is not possible for subject or object pronouns, such as they or them, to stand for only the noun in such a phrase. (By contrast, relative pronouns, such as that or those, if placed in parallel constructions, may stand for such nouns.) The use of this pronoun thus illogically suggests that the relationships in Micker's painting are also found in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings."
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Source: — Sentence Correction |

by kapur.arnav » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:24 am
gmatusa2010 wrote:The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam, which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings.
a. which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

b. painted by the artist long before such a vantage point was to become possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those among

c. which he painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than in

d. painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

e. painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those in


Can someone please explain D and E. I've read the official explaination and I still don't understand:


"The pronoun they must stand for the entire noun phrase "The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam." It is not possible for subject or object pronouns, such as they or them, to stand for only the noun in such a phrase. (By contrast, relative pronouns, such as that or those, if placed in parallel constructions, may stand for such nouns.) The use of this pronoun thus illogically suggests that the relationships in Micker's painting are also found in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings."
It should be E... we need to use than those over than they are in because spatial relationships is plural...

The elephants in the Amazon forest are more active than those in the Redwood Forests... we dont say than they are in...
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by gmatusa2010 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:59 pm
they is plural. in your example about the elephant, I agree that it should be "those" not because of singular/pluarl agreement but because of meaning. "they" implies somehow that the same elephant in the Amazon becomes more active in the Redwood forests. "those" is appropriate to refer to elephant as a class.

just to clarify my misunderstanding and thus my question. Can some explain the official explanattion? Particularly this phrase: "It is not possible for subject or object pronouns, such as they or them, to stand for only the noun in such a phrase"

What is "such a phrase"? I'm actually curious as to why "they/them" cannot not stand for JUST the noun in the sentence. Moreover, if an expert can expand on this concept that would be greatly appreciated.



kapur.arnav wrote:
gmatusa2010 wrote:The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam, which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings.
a. which he painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

b. painted by the artist long before such a vantage point was to become possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those among

c. which he painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than in

d. painted long before the possibility of such a vantage point, are much more subtle and intricate than they are in

e. painted long before such a vantage point became possible, are much more subtle and intricate than those in


Can someone please explain D and E. I've read the official explaination and I still don't understand:


"The pronoun they must stand for the entire noun phrase "The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam." It is not possible for subject or object pronouns, such as they or them, to stand for only the noun in such a phrase. (By contrast, relative pronouns, such as that or those, if placed in parallel constructions, may stand for such nouns.) The use of this pronoun thus illogically suggests that the relationships in Micker's painting are also found in most other seventeenth-century Dutch paintings."
It should be E... we need to use than those over than they are in because spatial relationships is plural...

The elephants in the Amazon forest are more active than those in the Redwood Forests... we dont say than they are in...
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by amar_kat » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:44 am
The OE is saying that :

in D "They" if used will represent entire phrase "The spatial relationships among the elements of Jan Micker's 1652 masterwork Bird's Eye View of Amsterdam." as a noun, which is wrong

but

in E "Those" if used will represent only the the "elephants" which is correct

Hope it helps
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