New data from the United States Forest

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New data from the United States Forest

by sachin_yadav » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:17 am
New data from the United States Forest Service ecologists show that for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel, it saves seven dollars that would not be spent on having to extinquish big fires

B. that for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel, seven dollars are saved that would have been spent on extinguishing.

C. that for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel saves seven dollars on not having to extinquish

D. for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel, that it saves seven dollars on not having to extinquish

E. for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel, that seven dollars are saved that would not have been spent on extinguishing.

Ans : B

Hi,

I got the answer correct, but i am confused with choice C.

In A--> Pronoun "it" has no clear referent so i eliminate this option.
In D--> "that" is required after "show" because it is a reporting verb. Again pronoun "it" has no clear referent. So, these were the two reasons i eliminated this answer choice.
In E--> "that" is required after "show" because it is a reporting verb. So eliminated this choice.
In C--> O.G says "saves" does not have subject. (Can anyone please explain this in more detail ?)
In B--> This was the only answer that looks better than others, so i chose this option.

The context talks about parallelism - scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel.

Is the parallelism between noun, noun, and noun ?

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Sachin
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by e-GMAT » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:53 am
Lets review the sentence with choice C.

New data from the United States Forest Service ecologists show that for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel saves seven dollars on not having to extinguish big fires.

Clause 1 - New data from the United States Forest Service ecologists show
Clause 2 - that for every dollar spent on controlled small scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel saves seven dollars on not having to extinguish big fires.

Now notice the sentence structure. There are two clauses in this sentence. Clause 1 (non-underlined clause) has the SV pair as shown. Now clause 2 is where the problem is. As you know, the subject cannot reside in a prepositional phrase. Now the text in olive shade is part of prepositional phrase, so for the analysis of SV identification, we should ignore this part. This leaves us with just the verb phrase - saves seven dollars...Thus, as mentioned in OG, there is no subject for the verb - saves. We do not know what or who saves the $7.

Thanks,

Payal

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by sachin_yadav » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:14 am
e-GMAT wrote: Now notice the sentence structure. There are two clauses in this sentence. Clause 1 (non-underlined clause) has the SV pair as shown. Now clause 2 is where the problem is. As you know, the subject cannot reside in a prepositional phrase. Now the text in olive shade is part of prepositional phrase, so for the analysis of SV identification, we should ignore this part. This leaves us with just the verb phrase - saves seven dollars...Thus, as mentioned in OG, there is no subject for the verb - saves. We do not know what or who saves the $7.

Thanks,

Payal
Thanks Payal, understood. Few more things, the context talks about parallelism - scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel.

Is the parallelism between noun, noun, and noun ?

Second, data always take/takes plural verb ?

I have seen couple of examples but not sure about it. For example:-
The data was/were collected by various researchers.
Now the data is/are being transferred from magnetic tape to hard disk.


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by e-GMAT » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:26 pm
sachin_yadav wrote: Thanks Payal, understood. Few more things, the context talks about parallelism - scale burning, forest thinning, and the training of fire management personnel.

Is the parallelism between noun, noun, and noun ?
Yes. It is. burning, thinning, and training are all verb-ing words that act as nouns.

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by e-GMAT » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:29 pm
sachin_yadav wrote: Second, data always take/takes plural verb ?
I have seen couple of examples but not sure about it. For example:-
The data was/were collected by various researchers.
Now the data is/are being transferred from magnetic tape to hard disk.
Data can either take singular or plural verb. But GMAT does not test this.

Here are two GMATPrep questions. In both questions, data and its verb are in non-underlined portion of the sentence and as you can see, in one sentence singular verb is used and in other sentence, plural verb is used:

Those skeptical of the extent of global warming argue that short-term temperature data are an inadequate means of predicting long-term trends and point out that the scientific community remains divided on whether significant warming will occur and what impact will it have if it does.

Now that so much data travels via light--i.e., is carried in glass fibers rather than by electrical current--one goal of semiconductor research isto develop a silicon chip that can transmit and receive light signals directly, a development that may one day lead tosmaller, faster semiconductors.

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by mundasingh123 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:33 pm
small scale burning, forest thinning are simple gerunds
the training of fire management personnel is complex gerund
Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
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by Frankenstein » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:49 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:small scale burning, forest thinning are simple gerunds
the training of fire management personnel is complex gerund
Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
Hi,
You are right..simple gerunds cannot be parallel to complex gerunds. However, small scale burning and forest thinning are not simple gerunds, they are complex gerunds as well. So, the usage is fine here.
Simple gerunds are of the form verb-ing+nouns. Here none of them are of this form. Comples gerunds can take two forms and those two forms are used in this example.
Last edited by Frankenstein on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by mundasingh123 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:53 pm
Frankenstein wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:small scale burning, forest thinning are simple gerunds
the training of fire management personnel is complex gerund
Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
Hi,
You are right..simple gerunds cannot be parallel to complex gerunds. However, small scale burning and forest thinning are not simple gerunds, they are complex gerunds as well. So, the usage is fine here.
how do you know they are complex gerunds. complex gerunds generally have the structure a/an/the X-ing of Y
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by Frankenstein » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:58 pm
Hi,
I was adding that point as well. But, you have replied at the same time :)
Anyway, you can even refer MGMAT SC - page 214
I enjoyed drinking the water and wine tasting(incorrect) because wine tasting is a complex gerund. So, complex gerunds can be in this form in addition to the article+-ing+of+..
Simple gerund should start with verb+ing.
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by EducationAisle » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:30 am
mundasingh123 wrote: Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
Could you let me know where exactly does OG 12 say that? To me, they are all Gerunds and hence, parallel.
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by mundasingh123 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:04 am
EducationAisle wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote: Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
Could you let me know where exactly does OG 12 say that? To me, they are all Gerunds and hence, parallel.
Cant recall . I noticed it in some Explanation
One view of the economy contends that a large drop in
oil prices should eventually lead to lowering interest
rates, as well as lowering fears about inflation,
a rally
in stocks and bonds, and a weakening of the dollar.
(A) lowering interest rates, as well as lowering fears
about inflation,
(B) a lowering of interest rates and of fears about
inflation,
(C) a lowering of interest rates, along with fears
about inflation,
(D) interest rates being lowered, along with fears
about inflation,
(E) interest rates and fears about inflation being
lowered, with
Parallelism; Diction
Th e sentence uses parallel structure to describe
the anticipated eff ects of a drop in oil prices.
Parallel noun phrases list two eff ects, a rally ...
and a weakening, so the fi rst eff ect in the series
must be written as a lowering. Lowering is a
participle, whereas a lowering is a gerund and
functions as a noun. For the sake of both clarity
and conciseness, the eff ects on interest rates and
fears should be combined into a single noun
phrase: a lowering of interest rates and of fears about
infl ation.
A Each noun in the parallel series should be
introduced by the indefi nite article a;
lowering, a verb form, needs to be made into
the noun a lowering; rates and fears should
be combined.
B Correct. Th e series a lowering ... a rally ...
and a weakening uses parallel structure
correctly; a lowering of interest rates and of
fears gracefully combines two eff ects in this
sentence.
C Parallelism is maintained with a lowering,
but the use of along with makes it unclear
that fears is parallel to rates.
D Parallelism is not maintained due to use of
along with as in the previous option; the
phrase interest rates being lowered is awkward.
E Parallelism is not maintained; the phrase
interest rates and fears about infl ation being
lowered is awkward.
The correct answer is B.
Although the OG doesnt identify lowering interest rates as a simple gerund , we can make out that its a simple gerund . The OG calls it a participle . By saying we cant set a participle in parallel to a noun - form of -ing , the OG , I believe , implicitly says that you are not supposed to parallel a simple gerund with a complex gerund
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by Frankenstein » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:12 am
EducationAisle wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote: Og 12 says we cant put a simple gerund in parallel to a complex gerund
Is this so ?
Could you let me know where exactly does OG 12 say that? To me, they are all Gerunds and hence, parallel.
Hi,
Are you referring to the gerunds in this example or gerunds in general?
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by EducationAisle » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:24 am
Frankenstein wrote: Hi,
Are you referring to the gerunds in this example or gerunds in general?
In general, except when OG uses a more "explicit" form of Gerund: for example - The thinning of forests.

In this case, however, all answer choices use the same form of "-ing", and hence, there is really no scope for confusion.
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by Frankenstein » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:40 am
EducationAisle wrote: In general, except when OG uses a more "explicit" form of Gerund: for example - The thinning of forests.

In this case, however, all answer choices use the same form of "-ing", and hence, there is really no scope for confusion.
Hi,
Even in this case there is a more 'explicit' form of Gerund: the training of fire management personnel. So, what is your take on 'thinning the forests' and 'the training of fire management personnel'. Would you say there are parallel or not. I am asking this because I fail to understand whether you mean simple gerunds can be made parallel to complex gerunds from your previous post.
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by EducationAisle » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:46 am
Hi!! What I said was that it was a moot point in this case, since all the options, including the original sentence use the same phrase: "the training of fire management personnel".

I did a quick search in OG and could not locate "complex Gerunds"/"simple Gerunds". Please let me know where in OG you came across these terms and I will look into that specific question/questions.
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