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Issues in Verbal Section:Aiming 700..Need advise for preps

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Issues in Verbal Section:Aiming 700..Need advise for preps

by kamathshailesh » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:53 pm
Hi Stacey,

As you suggested to start a new post, I am copy pasting the content here.

Thread Name :- GMATPrep 620 : Aiming 720+ verbally challenged ?

Link :- https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmatprep-620 ... tml#270525

I am following the thread(GMATPrep 620 : Aiming 720+ verbally challenged ?).


My exact last post :-
I have about three weeks time for my GMAT and am targetting 700+. These three weeks are off from work, so I can have around 8-9 hrs per day for studying. I would start with detailing my practice with GMAT books, then the results of full length tests minus the essays, then continue with stating my weakness and finally look for suggestions from you

I always timed my practice, however the time slots used to be 75 minutes solving the sums and then reviewing my practice sums.

Here are the results of my practice (over multiple sessions)
OG(11) - Data sufficiency -- 85% accuracy -- avg time 88 seconds ( Inequalities is the weak area)
OG(11) - Problem Solving -- 90% accuracy -- avg time 88 seconds ( Probability & Permutation/Combinations are the weak areas, Some geometry)
OG(11) - CR -- 76% Accuracy - avg time 106 seconds (Questions with Except)
OG(11) - RC -- 66% Accuracy - avg time 105 seconds (difficulty in dealing with passages other than science)

SC is my weakest section. I have accuracy of around 60% without time pressure and this drops to around 50% when timed. The main issue here is of understanding the concepts tested on GMAT and then effectively applying them. With reading on this forum, now i am able to narrow down to 2 options but unable to nail the correct one.

I am done with Kaplan Premier Program for all sections and Kaplans GMAT 800 with sections other than SC.

Essays :- I have a gist of what's tested in AWA. I have practiced writing some essays and have got them reviewed from a friend. Its not all that bad, I would say good enough to score around 4.5 to 5

Last week, I started taking full length GMAT practice [again without the Essays]

Test 1 :- Source (PDFs shared my friend) Quant 35/37 and Verbal 18/41 .. This is the first time I took Quant and Verbal together. It took its toll on me and wasn't able to concentrate in last 10 mins and ended up marking answers at random for last 7 in verbal section

Test 2 :- GMATPrep Quant 28/37 (Scaled 49) and Verbal 25/41(Scaled 25)..Score 620 (completed both the sections and guessed 3 Qs in RC in between at random, even without reading the passage. One of the three was correct)

Test 3 :- Source (PDFs shared my friend) Quant 32/37 and Verbal 24/41 (completed both the sections and guessed 3 Qs in RC in between at random, even without reading the passage. None correct this time)

I have the details of individual sections which went wrong in these tests. In summary,
1. Sentence correction 50% accuracy
2. CR and RC... was able to solve most of them correctly while reviewing. This implies I have timing issue particularly after going through Quant.
3. Quant - I manage to finish it well in time ( around 5 minutes to spare). I am trying to space it even more. DS is key pain area, got almost all PS correct.

I understand these score might be inflated as I have skipped the essays. Effectively with the discounted scores, I am nowhere close to my target. This has taken a beating on my confidence.

Key issues

1. Sentence Correction
2. Concentrating for over long periods of time


Further plan

1. Buy Manhattan SC - Edition 4 and go through the concepts and devote 50% of days preparation on SC (Timing + conceptualizing)
2. I have 4 full length tests from Kaplan and One for GMATPrep up my sleeve.
3. I have more than 10 PDFs test from where I can practice. These are the PDFs which claim to have actual GMAT sums but which might be aged out.

I believe that with your experience you would be able to guide me given my current status. Please suggest me specifically with respect to
1. Sentence correction
2. Practice more RCs from ?
3. Full length tests. Which ones should I look at to achieve my target?
4. Should I look to improve DS(Quant)? I have significant room in verbal. So should I utilize it completely for Verbal

Please feel free to point out any flaws in my approach


Thanks in advance,
Shailesh
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by kamathshailesh » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:04 pm
Now, updating on the above message,

I have about 2 weeks to go now. Since I have ample room to grow in verbal i focussed all my energy on verbal for

the last week. As i have the pdf (paper tests), I started with giving 2 verbal tests (75 mins each) with 5 minutes

break and rest of the day in evaluation.

Evaluation :- Average score (25/41). Standard deviation 2.5
CR :- 90% accuracy with average time of 110 seconds
RC :- 65% accuracy with average time of 94 seconds

For RC, I guessed the last passage always without reading it so avg time to solve is 115 seconds with accuracy of

75%

SC :- 40% accuracy with average time of 98 seconds

I try to apply the strategies that you mentioned while evaluating, reasons, keeping error log, minimizing the same

mistake, etc. I am also trying to develop a guard against Qs where i end up spending time and eventually get it

wrong. There are some Qs where i end up spending around 4 minutes to only know it later that i have go that wrong.
This is one of the points thats already started to show some results in my later tests. Thanks for highlighting

Knowing that these results are inflated as I m not taking essays, I decided to take 3 paper tests, first of which i

took yesterday. Verbal (75 mins) + 5 mins break + Quant (75 mins) + 5 mins break + Verbal (75 mins)

Evaluation

Test 1 - 19/41
Challenging RC killed lot of time. Guessed 2 whole RCs randomly and got all of them incorrect.

Test 2 - 36/37
Made a careless mistake in PS. Finished the test 7 minutes before the scheduled time. I think this is

going pretty much fine. The time distribution that I am looking to follow
First 10 - 23 minutes
Next 10 - 21 minutes
Next 10 - 18 minutes
Last 7 - 13 minutes

Test 3 - 30/41
Best verbal score i have got so far. Decoded SCs faster and got them correct and Guessed 2 SCs which i

found difficult without wasting time on them once i realized they are out of my reach. All the guessed went wrong.

CRs were relatively much easier than Test 1.


Further plan

Keeping working with Manhattan SC and take the 3 tests (as mentioned above) for 2 more times on alternate days.
Go through all the Quant sums which were wrong from OG and some notes that i have made for myself
Go through OG12 for entire Verbal section

Give GMAT prep 1 - 4 days before this time with essays
Give GMAT prep 2 - 3 days before this time with essays

Last two days, consolidate and getting prepared for the day.

I sincerely believe that your advise would help me to align my preps as it has been always.

Regards,
Shailesh
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by Stacey Koprince » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:13 am
Responding to your PM!

Goal score: 700+
Current practice test score: low 600s (possibly lower due to not taking essays)
Time: ~ 1.5 weeks

The most important issue: the last valid practice test that you took (paper tests are not valid) was a 620 without the essays. Your goal score is 700+. It is uncommon to improve 80+ points in 2 or 3 weeks; some people have done it, but most people would not be able to acheive that kind of score jump in that timeframe.

You need to think about whether you would rather keep your goal score but postpone your test, or lower your goal score and keep your current test date.

The PDF tests that you mentioned are not adaptive. Don't take any more of these as practice tests - non-adaptive tests are a waste of your time when you are trying to simulate the real testing situation. (You can use these as practice problems, though, similar to the way in which you use OG.)

Next, I would advise that you stop taking so many exams. CAT exams are really good for (a) figuring out where you're scoring right now, (b) practicing stamina, and (c) analyzing your strengths and weaknesses. The actual act of just taking the exam is NOT so useful for improving. It's what you do with the test results / between tests that helps you to improve.

"Doing" = taking a test or doing a set of practice problems
"Learning" = everything you do to analyze those problems AFTER you've done them and everything you set out to learn based upon that analysis.

After you've taken a test, use that test to figure out what your weaknesses are, across question type, content area, and timing (not just content area). This analysis can take several days. Then set up a study plan based upon those weaknesses and spend a significant amount of time (often, you can identify 2-3 weeks' worth of study material from a single test) trying to get better at whatever you have identified. "Trying to get better" can involve studying from books, taking a class or listening to / watching a recorded lesson, asking questions on the forums, discussing with your peers or experts, and so on. When you feel that you have improved some weakness, then test yourself on some practice problems to confirm that you actually have improved. After you have done that in all of the major areas you identified from your last test, then take a practice test again to identify new areas in which to concentrate for a while.

This article tells you how to conduct the first level of analysis on an MGMAT test:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/09/23 ... tice-tests

And this article tells you how to conduct analysis on an individual problem (you should do this analysis on EVERY problem, whether you got it right or wrong!):
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09 ... ce-problem
DS is key pain area, got almost all PS correct.
What was your timing like? Is DS a pain area because you are spending more time on PS and having to rush on DS? (I ask because a lot of people do this. Then they think DS is a weakness, but it's really not - they're just not spending enough time on it.)
I understand these score might be inflated as I have skipped the essays
Possibly, yes. Not everyone experiences an inflated score when skipping the essays, but it is more common to have an inflated score than not when skipping the essays.
These are the PDFs which claim to have actual GMAT sums but which might be aged out.
I don't know exactly what you mean here, but I hope you're talking about the old paper GMAT tests. If that's the case, then you are only breaking copyright laws by sharing these. (These are not available for free legally.) If you are talking about some PDFs that claim to have "live" GMAT questions that were illegally written down and distributed after people took the test, then you should delete ALL such material from your computer immediately, and you should delete any references to any of these materials in any posts that you have ever made on the Internet. Sharing "live" material is serious enough that GMAC has banned people from taking the GMAT for life when they have been caught sharing live material.
1. Sentence correction
You may be struggling with process, content (grammar), or both - it's hard for me to tell based upon what you wrote so far. It sounds like you also recently got MGMAT's SC guide, and it sounds like you are making progress, so keep that up. Start with these articles; the first talks about the general process for any SC question, and the second talks about how to learn from SC questions that you've done:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/06/ ... on-problem
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... c-question
2. Practice more RCs from ?
If you are not yet where you want to be on RC, then you should still be using OG, even if you have done all of the passages and questions already. You may have done them but you have not yet learned what you needed to learn. The third article below, in particular, will teach you how to analyze and learn from RC questions.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/04/ ... mp-passage
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/07/ ... rc-passage
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... e-question
3. Full length tests. Which ones should I look at to achieve my target?
GMATPrep. Others from reputable companies that have made adaptive tests. Kaplan's fine. You mentioned that you bought our SC guide, so you also have access to our test database now.
4. Should I look to improve DS(Quant)? I have significant room in verbal. So should I utilize it completely for Verbal
Maybe DS eventually - but your quant score is already *very* good compared to verbal, so must of your time should be spent on verbal at this point, yes.
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minor update

by kamathshailesh » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:02 am
Thanks Stacey for detailed response. I will be going through the links you have posted in the response and try to make the best use in the available time.

Just few updates
1.
What was your timing like? Is DS a pain area because you are spending more time on PS and having to rush on DS? (I ask because a lot of people do this. Then they think DS is a weakness, but it's really not - they're just not spending enough time on it.)
DS is pain area but not due to timing issue on either PS or DS. Sometime the i get into the trap the question has set. So i guess more practice is needed in that area particularly inequalities. I have started using numbers while solving this which has improved my accuracy. Initially I used to missing out on fractions, negative numbers, testing for zero or 1.

2.
I don't know exactly what you mean here, but I hope you're talking about the old paper GMAT tests.
Yes they are the old paper tests. I understand the point you made and would take appropriate actions. Thanks for letting me know about copyright violation.


3.
You may be struggling with process, content (grammar), or both - it's hard for me to tell based upon what you wrote so far. It sounds like you also recently got MGMAT's SC guide, and it sounds like you are making progress, so keep that up.
Sentence correction :- I think with practice over the last two weeks i have familarized myself the content part but i take longer to crack the question. Usually taking around than two and half minutes. In the last few practice Qs which went wrong, I was able to answer those without time pressure(implies I am getting better at content now). During analysis, The key flaw i realized during analysis was not understanding the sentence completely and looking for splits and whats being tested. Thus applying parallelism or comparison was words based rather than meaning based. I guess only practice can fixing timing issues. Please advice.


I have devised a strategy for myself after analyzing my practice over last few months and by reading some of your posts in some other threads on strategies.

AWA - have practiced few essays and taken tips from this forum to effectively present the point. Referred templates too.

Quant :- Know my strengths and weaknesses. Have decided what types of sums to guess and have a timing sense of the amount of time required to solve.

Verbal :-

CR is the strongest (except boldface) :- Would guess on boldface and within my capacity try to crack most of the CRs. Currently my average time is around 110 seconds but would spend upto 130 - 150 seconds if need be, as the likelihood of getting it correct is high. I had read in one of your posts that it is important to get your strengths right so applying that.

RC :- One whole RC i have to guess at random without reading the passage. This can cost upto 4 questions wrong in a row. I would guess a RC which is around Q30. Would this take a severe beating on my score. I am weighing it against my accuracy of 75% and guessing last six. Not sure on what my approach should be.

SC :- Accuracy around 60-65%. I am weakest at tenses and questions where the whole sentence is underlined. So planning to spend less time at these and move to the next question.


Please advise if some changes to this would help me approach my exam better.

I would like to thank you again for analyzing my situation and giving valuable feedback.
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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:57 pm
I have started using numbers while solving this which has improved my accuracy. Initially I used to missing out on fractions, negative numbers, testing for zero or 1.
Good. A couple of additional points on this:

1) When you are testing numbers on a yes/no DS question, pick anything you want (that's allowed by the problem) for the first one, and see whether that gives you a "yes" or "no" reply. After that, try to pick numbers that you think might give you the opposite reply. E.g., if you try 3, and that gives you a "yes" answer to your yes/no question, try your best from that point on to get a "no" answer.

You want to do this because as soon as you have one "yes" and one "no," you know that the statement is not sufficient. If you keep getting "yes" answers, then maybe that statement is sufficient or maybe you just haven't tried the right number yet. :)

Keep trying numbers (that are allowed by the problem) until you:
(a) get at least one yes and at least one no (= not sufficient)
(b) have tried all available possibilities if they have limited you to a small number of possibilities (eg, x is an integer between 10 and 13, inclusive - so just try 10, 11, 12, and 13)
(c) have tried 5 numbers that are as different as you are allowed to make them

If you get all the same answer (all yes or all no) for (b) or (c), then just assume that statement is sufficient. (You're not guaranteed to be right, but you probably are.)

In general, here are the broad categories of numbers to try:
negative integers less than -1
-1
fractions between -1 and 0
0
fractions between 0 and 1
1
positive integers greater than 1

Try the ones allowed by the problem (eg, if the problem says the number is non-negative, don't try the negative numbers :)).
Occasionally, depending upon the problem, you may need to try different categories. If the problem mentions the word even, for example, then you should think in terms of evens and odds. Other problems might lead you to try prime numbers, depending upon the wording.

Practice this and, when reviewing the problem afterwards, ask yourself, "What numbers work best here and how should I have known while doing the problem to try those numbers? How will I know next time?"

Re: SC, yes, practice will help. It's also important to make sure your overall process is efficient; this article can help:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/06/ ... on-problem

CR: your strategy is fine.

RC: guessing on one entire passage is NOT a good idea because, as you noted, you can get up to 4 Qs wrong in a row on this. If someone is scoring at about the 75th percentile and gets the last 5 questions wrong in a row, that person's score may drop as much as 10 or 12 percentile points. It's better to know what areas are particularly hard for you (such as boldface CR) and make random guesses on those as you see them throughout the section so that you don't have to do so on 4 Qs in a row.

Basically, you are going to have to guess on between 4 and 7 questions in a section. Your best best is to choose the 4 to 7 hardest questions as you see them throughout the entire test. You don't want those 4 to 7 questions to be in a row and you especially do not want them to be at the end of the test (because your score just drops, with no opportunity to get another few questions right to raise it again).

SC: strategy is fine, though do give each question a shot.

Basically, unless you are behind and need to catch up, you should spend at least 45s on any SC and at least 1m on any of the others** - at the least, you should be able to eliminate one answer choice. Maybe once or twice per test will you see something where you literally can't eliminate anything. (If you are already behind, though, then you can't afford to take a minimum amount of time on every question - then, you do just need to move on immediately when as soon as you realize that some question is a really hard one for you.)

** I'm going to caveat that. The one time this does NOT apply is when you are on time but something pops up that you absolutely hate, that you know you'll get very frustrated if you try it. If that happens, and if it's something that's only going to show up once on the test, then it's okay to say 'forget it!' and move on.
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by kamathshailesh » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:29 am
Thanks Stacey. I went through the links mentioned in the posts above and feel that i have lost ground to be able to catch up now (less than a week for my exam). I wish i had these sources when i started my preps. Correct ways to analyze, how to ensure to not repeat your mistake, etc. When i look back i feel that i could had maximized my efforts by following the correct approach. Though i have picked few aspects which i feel i can apply now :-)

For the remainder of the time, I would focus on OG, GMAT prep and notes that i have made.

I will update you with my final score.

Thanks,
Shailesh
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by Stacey Koprince » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:48 am
If you feel unprepared (or much less prepared than you would like), then you can always postpone your testing date. (Unless you have a deadline.) Just remember that - a lot of people are reluctant to push off their test for a few weeks, but the only thing that would prevent you from doing that is a specific deadline.

Good luck!
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by kamathshailesh » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:39 am
Hi Stacey,

I am done with my GMAT yesterday. I scored 640 (Q50 and V27). My score is on lower side for the colleges I am targetting at. With 5 years experience and score of 700 increases the likelihood of getting a call. I will try to do the best with my applications with this score. Although I strongly believe that I would need 700.

As I see, there is room for improvement in Verbal section. Quant, I think I am pretty much saturated.

Can you please let me know from your experience, how much time it takes generally to improve verbal from Scaled 27 to scaled 40. The key area for improvement is Sentence Correction.

My next goal is increasing accuracy in Sentence correction from 60% to 90% and getting the average time to crack the sentence from 150 seconds to 90 seconds.

Can you suggest me the right approach to master sentence correction with books and other reference material that would help me master the content.

I am planning to have another go at the GMAT and hopefully beat it my second attempt.

Regards,
Shailesh
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:43 pm
V27 ~ 40th percentile
V40 ~ 90th percentile

First, that's a huge jump. That would put you well above 700 (assuming quant stays the same). So if your goal is 700, you don't have to go quite that far. You can probably get away with something in the mid 30s (low to mid 70s for percentile). That's still a significant amount of work; you're likely looking at a minimum of 6 weeks and probably longer.

Second, I don't remember what material you were using before for SC. If you don't already have it, I would recommend our (ManhattanGMAT's) Sentence Correction Strategy Guide. I have an obvious conflict of interest in recommending this, since I work for the company, but ask around - everyone pretty much says they think our SC guide is the best. :) (/bragging)

Use the guide in conjunction with the Official Guide (current editions are 12th edition for the main book and 2nd edition for the Verbal Review book).

Also, yes, the timing needs to be improved on SC. I linked upthread to an article about how to work through SC problems in general - use that to help you get better at the actual process, regardless of the specific content in the problem.

Here are some other articles about how to study SC (not the grammar itself, but how to study grammar):
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/09 ... ce-problem
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... c-question
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... -questions
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