Is this Question correct ?

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:49 am

Hi All,

In the below question, the OA is [spoiler]"D"[/spoiler]. Can someone please tell is this correct question....in all the options....whom/they/men are referred to....and there is no referent in my opinion for the same in the sentence.

Black History month is observed in Feb,the month of Lincoln's Bday and the generally accepted month of Fredrick Douglass' birth,since they were each primary figures in the abolition of slavery.
a) since they were each
b) who were both
c) because both of whom were
d) because both men were
e) each of whom was one of the

Thanks
Mohit

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:49 am

rs2010: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 232; Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:14 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 14 times; GMAT Score:760

by rs2010 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:32 pm

I feel use of men is correct.
In A use of since is not correct.
In B use of who.
In C use of whom.
In D not that good choice but probably the best
In E use of whom.

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gmat740: MBA Student; Posts: 1194; Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:42 pmFollowed by: 17 members; Location: Paris, France; Thanked: 71 times; GMAT Score:710

by gmat740 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:23 pm

Is it really required to include men??
I think B is correct because there is a clear reference of the two people about whom we are taking and so I think there is no need to include Men

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PinkBox: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 46; Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:28 am; Thanked: 4 times

by PinkBox » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:29 pm

B is incorrect bc "who" is modifying the incorrect noun "birth". also this option changes the meaning of the sentence. "since" in the original sentence tries to show effect so we should stick with an answer choice that conveys the original meaning

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:28 pm

hemantsood wrote:I feel use of men is correct.
In A use of since is not correct.
In B use of who.
In C use of whom.
In D not that good choice but probably the best
In E use of whom.

Can you please tell why use of men is correct, when there is no men in the sentence....there are only their birthdays....and as Manhattan says (atleast for pronoun it says)..there should be clear noun referrent...

Does use of men not come under that rule...

Please tell what I am missing here ?

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:29 pm

gmat740 wrote:Is it really required to include men??
I think B is correct because there is a clear reference of the two people about whom we are taking and so I think there is no need to include Men

IMO yes,...there are only men's birthdays....and as Manhattan says (atleast for pronoun it says)..there should be clear noun referrent...

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Jatinder: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 280; Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:18 am; Thanked: 5 times; GMAT Score:610

by Jatinder » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:39 pm

goelmohit2002 wrote:
hemantsood wrote:I feel use of men is correct.
In A use of since is not correct.
In B use of who.
In C use of whom.
In D not that good choice but probably the best
In E use of whom.
Can you please tell why use of men is correct, when there is no men in the sentence....there are only their birthdays....and as Manhattan says (atleast for pronoun it says)..there should be clear noun referrent...

Does use of men not come under that rule...

Please tell what I am missing here ?

you are missing nothing, so you are on target.
all other choices has pronoun reference error except D

Keep flying

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:44 pm

Jatinder wrote: you are missing nothing, so you are on target.
all other choices has pronoun reference error except D

Can you please tell...is use of Men ok...when there are no men in the original sentence....there are only men's b'days. If so why ?

Thanks
Mohit

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ken3233: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 125; Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:49 pm; Thanked: 2 times

by ken3233 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:01 pm

I picked "E" at first; I can barely believe I overlooked the pronoun error!

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Jatinder: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 280; Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:18 am; Thanked: 5 times; GMAT Score:610

by Jatinder » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:06 pm

goelmohit2002 wrote:
Jatinder wrote: you are missing nothing, so you are on target.
all other choices has pronoun reference error except D
Can you please tell...is use of Men ok...when there are no men in the original sentence....there are only men's b'days. If so why ?

Thanks
Mohit

hmm.
Men is not a pronoun, so you do not need an antecedant for "Men"
The usage is normel and correct.
Let me know if you still need clarification.

Keep flying

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GMAT/MBA Expert

lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:36 pm

jatinder nails it.

ANTECEDENT issues apply only to PRONOUNS.

since "men" is not a pronoun, you don't need a grammatically correct antecedent; all you need is an unambiguous reference to two men somewhere in the sentence. we have that here, so we're golden.

the same is true for singular/plural issues. if you have two NOUNS, then they don't have to agree in terms of singular/plural. for instance, it's fine to write:
birds have a four-chambered heart.
...even though 'birds' is plural and 'heart' is singular. (reference: OG verbal supplement #59, in which neanderthals (pl) have a vocal tract (sing) ).
this is not a problem, because none of 'birds', 'heart', 'neanderthals', and 'tract' is a pronoun.
in fact, these sentences are clearer than their plural counterparts (e.g., 'birds have four-chambered hearts'), because the latter sentence seems to imply that there are multiple hearts per bird.

--

the fact that nouns don't have to have grammatically precise antecedents makes possible the entire class of "absolute phrases" / appositives / noun modifiers / whatever they're called (i don't actually know what they're called). for instance:
the coach tried to use five receivers on first down, a strategy that backfired and resulted in a sack.
in this case, there's no single noun that corresponds to "a strategy" ... but that's fine, since "strategy" isn't a pronoun.
you would NOT, on the other hand, be able to use pronouns such as "which" in this sentence (i.e., you can't say "...which backfired...").

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions Ã Ron en franÃ§ais
Voit esittÃ¤Ã¤ kysymyksiÃ¤ Ron:lle myÃ¶s suomeksi

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Quand on se sent bien dans un vÃªtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vÃªtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:44 pm

Thanks Ron and Jatinder for clearing the doubts.

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