Is GMAC cheating us through OG-12: Experts please respond

This topic has expert replies
Legendary Member
Posts: 1578
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Thanked: 82 times
Followed by:9 members
GMAT Score:720
Author Message
payam
Post subject: SCORE TOP SET 30 Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:19 pm
Q35:
What is the median number of employees assigned per project for the projects at Company Z?
(1) 25 percent of the projects at Company Z have 4 or more employees assigned to each
project.
(2) 35 percent of the projects at Company Z have 2 or fewer employees assigned to each
project.
A. Statement (1) ALONE is sufficient, but statement (2) alone is not sufficient.
B. Statement (2) ALONE is sufficient, but statement (1) alone is not sufficient.
C. BOTH statements TOGETHER are sufficient, but NEITHER statement ALONE is
sufficient.
D. EACH statement ALONE is sufficient.
E. Statements (1) and (2) TOGETHER are NOT sufficient.

The above is an OG-12 Q, that is already discussed on manhattan forum, thanks scoretop. See the following link:

https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/sco ... t1081.html

What all have to say, is OG-12 just a hasty decision to bring some of the Q disclosed through scoetop?
Last edited by maihuna on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charged up again to beat the beast :)

User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 2567
Joined: 01 Jan 2009
Thanked: 712 times
Followed by:550 members
GMAT Score:770

by DanaJ » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:36 pm
IMHO, knowing when a new OG gets released would be more helpful in establishing if what you say is true. If it usually takes three years to release a new book (i.e. see average of years between releases), then if they released the OG 12 after just 1 year your claim might have some weight to it.

I'm skeptical of what you're saying though: GMAC filed suit more than two years ago, so they were investigating the issue long before the new OG was published.

Legendary Member
Posts: 1578
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Thanked: 82 times
Followed by:9 members
GMAT Score:720

by maihuna » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:30 am
DanaJ wrote:IMHO, knowing when a new OG gets released would be more helpful in establishing if what you say is true. If it usually takes three years to release a new book (i.e. see average of years between releases), then if they released the OG 12 after just 1 year your claim might have some weight to it.

I'm skeptical of what you're saying though: GMAC filed suit more than two years ago, so they were investigating the issue long before the new OG was published.
DanaJ,
the above Q is discussed in manhattan web in 2007, source is scoretop, the OG-12 came in 2009, and this Q is a new DS Q in OG, so it means OG has published a Q that they know someone has already stolen. similarly most not all Q can be traced back to scoretop sets as per some discussion thread.

The issue I have raised is why GMAC has published a Q in its official release that they have caught some one who have already stolen from their pool long back.

Imagine a guy preparing in 2009 using OG as latest retired Q that is some one have already stolen and discussed in 2005/6. How odd it is?

In my opinion GMAC should have published all such Q in a all new brand OG 12 rather than an OG having only 300 new Q. That way some parity might have come for all, if they all needed to do so.
Charged up again to beat the beast :)

Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts
Posts: 18
Joined: 27 Aug 2009

by p2dski » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:44 pm
maihuna wrote:
In my opinion GMAC should have published all such Q in a all new brand OG 12 rather than an OG having only 300 new Q. That way some parity might have come for all, if they all needed to do so.
If anyone has that question and they obtained it from ScoreTop, they obtained the question illegally. ScoreTop was publishing "live" answers to the tests. So if anyone has that question, then they are violating copyright laws unless they bought OG12. However, by publishing that question in the OG12, GMAC levels the playing field with the cheaters who used ScoreTop. In that way, I think it was a smart decision to publish the question.

https://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... =rss_daily
"Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success." -Napoleon Hill

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 519
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Location: India
Thanked: 31 times

by Neo2000 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:22 pm
GMAC very clearly states that questions in the OG are retired GMAT questions. Scoretop, as has been pointed out earlier, was publishing "live" questions and selling this to other students.

Now,
a.) only a handful of students purchased this
which means the rest of the world didn't. There's nothing wrong if GMAC chooses to publish this question, because (i)technically, it is a retired Q (ii) very few would have actually seen the question.

b.)Unfortunately, GMAC provides a service that we utilise. If you don't approve of their way of doing business, you can choose not to use their service. How they conduct their business(as long as it is legally correct)is up to them.

c.) Since these Qs are "Retired" qs, they could have appeared anytime between the publication of the last OG and the new OG. Very few students actually wait 4yrs to take the GMAT again so really you have no reason to grumble.

Finally, as has already been repeated-- Steer clear of Scoretop. You don't want GMAC coming after you and banning you from the exam do you??

Legendary Member
Posts: 1578
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Thanked: 82 times
Followed by:9 members
GMAT Score:720

by maihuna » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:55 am
Neo2000 wrote:GMAC very clearly states that questions in the OG are retired GMAT questions. Scoretop, as has been pointed out earlier, was publishing "live" questions and selling this to other students.

Now,
a.) only a handful of students purchased this
which means the rest of the world didn't. There's nothing wrong if GMAC chooses to publish this question, because (i)technically, it is a retired Q (ii) very few would have actually seen the question.

b.)Unfortunately, GMAC provides a service that we utilise. If you don't approve of their way of doing business, you can choose not to use their service. How they conduct their business(as long as it is legally correct)is up to them.

c.) Since these Qs are "Retired" qs, they could have appeared anytime between the publication of the last OG and the new OG. Very few students actually wait 4yrs to take the GMAT again so really you have no reason to grumble.

Finally, as has already been repeated-- Steer clear of Scoretop. You don't want GMAC coming after you and banning you from the exam do you??
Neo, the Question I have referred is a manhattan link, there are several such links where their instructor has given some explanation as well, I think if GMAC need to chase me it should be Manhattan and other such links not me, for sure.

Why I am raising this issue is as below: I was having some issue with OG-12 questions and did some google search, I was aghast by seeing the same question being discusses 2-3 year back. And some of the sites hosting such questions were Manhattans.

What surprised me was the ditto copy of the questions, that too in verbal, I can never imagine how they have copied it.

People were waiting for OG-12 as big event which turns out to be having some of the Q from paper tests and some from cheated sources, good or bad its a pity nonsense practice. I am agonized. And dont care who is listening to all such stuffs. Hope I am clear to you as well Neo.
Charged up again to beat the beast :)

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 519
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Location: India
Thanked: 31 times

by Neo2000 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:20 am
So what if the question was being discussed 3years ago? How does that change your prep for the GMAT? Does it make the Q any less relevant? Hardly--you already know these are retired Qs, you just dont know when they were retired. It takes atleast 6months of printing before a book is released to the market. About a year before that is spent in writing and proof-reading.

As for the ditto copy, there were rumours that some people were sitting for the GMAT with the sole intention of memorising the Qs. How true that is we'll never know.

Were you waiting for the OG-12 as a big event? I'm sorry it didn't live up to your expectations then.

We will never know how many Qs Scoretop released to the public, and at the time of litigation, i doubt GMAC would have had the time to sift through Qs on Scoretop and Qs in the new edition. Its possible that when Og-13 comes out, it'll be brand new Qs.

I'm still not sure why you are agonized. That Q is 3yrs old, and no longer appears on the GMAT. People who cheated had a slight advantage then, now the playing field is more level. Not to mention not everybody sifts through ALL the forums for PS questions. Heck, i never went beyond BtG and PG and still managed a 710 on first attempt.

You are wasting your time and emotions over something trivial. Disengage and Focus.

Legendary Member
Posts: 1578
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Thanked: 82 times
Followed by:9 members
GMAT Score:720

by maihuna » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:46 am
Neo, Yes I think I am wasting my time, but some of thing has pained me a lot. DS is my weak area, I was so happy to see there were 100 Q new on that topic, I already have paper tests bought from GMAC, what was so pity to see is out of these 100 almost 50+ are from those paper tests, how the hell they can sell the same material twice...
Charged up again to beat the beast :)