"ing" Modifier Three Different Versions in OG????

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by vineetbatra » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:56 am
in B it is rising which is singular, unless the subject is Rising Interest rates.

So why is the subject Rising Interest rates in B but only a rise in D.

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by goelmohit2002 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:00 am
vineetbatra wrote:in B it is rising which is singular, unless the subject is Rising Interest rates.

So why is the subject Rising Interest rates in B but only a rise in D.
IMO because Rising interest rates is a complete noun phrase.

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by Stacey Koprince » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:03 am
Good stuff - you guys don't even need me!

"rising rates" = adjective noun (rising is just describing rates - what kind of rates? rising rates)

"a rate" = noun

So get rid of A, C, D based on subj-verb mismatch.

"them" is also problematic - does that refer to "orders" or "durable goods"? Elim E.
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by goelmohit2002 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:40 am
Hi Stacey,

Many thanks for your wonderful insights. Just reasking another doubt for a question already discussed in this thread:

In the below question(OG-12, Q1), option B, can you please tell why can't we kick out B based on the fact that there are two independent clauses but they are not joined by comma


There are following two independent clauses:

a) they were named supposedly
b) their sheer wet rocks glistered like glass.

Kindly tell what I am missing here.

===============================================
The Glass House Mountains in Queensland, Australia, were sighted in 1770 by the English navigator Caption James Cook, by whom they were named supposedly because its sheer wet rocks glistered like glass.

A. by whom they were named supposedly because its
B. by whom they were named supposedly and their
C. naming them supposedly since their
D. who so named them supposedly because their
E. who so named it since supposedly

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by vineetbatra » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:18 am
This is from MGMAT CAT, in this A is wrong and explanations says that Having been won modifies Classical guitar, however ing modifiers modifies the entire clause.

Any thoughts

Classical guitar was neither prestigious nor was often played in concert halls until it was revived by Andres Segovia in the mid-twentieth century, having been won over by the instrument's sound despite its relative obscurity.

a. Classical guitar was neither prestigious nor was often played in concert halls until it was revived by Andres Segovia in the mid-twentieth century, having been won over by the instrument's sound despite its relative obscurity.

b. Classical guitar was neither prestigious nor played often in concert halls until it was revived by Andres Segovia in the mid-twentieth century, having been won over by the instrument's sound despite its relative obscurity.

c. Classical guitar was not prestigious and was not often played in concert halls until Andres Segovia revived it in the mid-twentieth century, after he was won over by the sound despite the instrument's relative obscurity.


d. Classical guitar did not have prestige nor was it performed often in concert halls until its revival by Andres Segovia, who in the mid-twentieth century was won over by the instrument's sound despite its relative obscurity.
e. Classical guitar was neither prestigious nor was often played in concert halls until Andres Segovia revived it in the mid-twentieth century, when he was won over by the sound of the relatively obscure instrument

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:50 am
"by whom they were named supposedly and their sheer wet rocks glistered like glass."

These are not independent clauses. The first one is not just "they were named supposedly." It is "by whom they were named supposedly." That's not independent.
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by Stacey Koprince » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:54 am
This is from MGMAT CAT, in this A is wrong and explanations says that Having been won modifies Classical guitar, however ing modifiers modifies the entire clause.
The explanation could have been a bit more detailed. When you talk about an adverbial modifier (eg, a "comma -ing" modifier), you can talk about it modifying the subject of the preceding clause or the subject+verb of the preceding clause or the verb of the preceding clause. The point is that it does NOT modify only the object (or some other noun that is not the subject) of the preceding clause.

The preceding clause uses a pronoun as the subject ("it was revived by Segovia") and that pronoun refers to "classical guitar." So the modifier technically modifies "classical guitar revived by Segovia": that is, the classical guitar revived by Segovia was won over by the instrument's sound. The guitar... not Segovia. No good.
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by vittalgmat » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:46 pm
Thanks Stacey for the excellent explanations. I have one more question regarding this gmatprep Q. Choice C has a comma-ing modifier (,having). Does it modify the clause "that did it....AN" ?
and "that" refers to AN right ?

It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and it was under her command that the paper won high praise for its unrelenting reporting of the Watergate scandal.

A) It was only after Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and it was under her command that the paper won high praise
B) It was only after Katharine Graham's becoming publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 that it moved into the first rank of American newspapers, and under her command it had won high praise
C) Katharine Graham became publisher of The Washington Post in 1963 and only after that did it move into the first rank of American newspapers, having won high praise under her command
D) Moving into the first rank of American newspapers only after Katharine Graham became its publisher in 1963, The Washington Post, winning high praise under her command
E) Moving into the first rank of American newspapers only after Katharine Grahame's becoming its publisher in 1963, The Washington Post won high praise under her command

thanks a lot in advance.

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yup! that is tough

by kiennguyen » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:47 am
thanks, Stacy!

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by Emad2010 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:08 am
Stacey Koprince wrote:
In your post you have written " An "-ed" modifier is a noun modifier, not an adverbial modifier,"

I have studied things contrary to this . an - ed modifier is a adverbial modifier .
I will quote few examples .....

Three senators reversed their vote on the controversial tax bill , prodded by public opinion.

since adverbs answer the question where , when , why , how and how often - " prodded by public opinion" is a adverb because it answers the question- why did the senators reverse their vote ?they reversed because they were prodded by public opinion .......
The sentence you've given is not correct, because the "comma -ed" setup answers the question "who?" Who was prodded by public opinion? The three senators. That signals a noun modifier. So a corrected version of the sentence might read: Prodded by public opinion, the three senators reversed their vote.

I understand why you thought it was adverbial, because you can logically also read this as answering the question "why?" I don't like using the question "why?" to test these because it is easier to mis-interpret a "who" phrase or clause (which is a noun modifier) as an adverbial. One thing you could do is try asking yourself "does it answer the 'who' question?" first. If so, it's a noun modifier.
Stacy thanks a lot for you info on modifiers,

could you see following link
https://www.beatthegmat.com/gprep-wines- ... tml#211550

I've 1w to exam and i stuck with SC

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by ansumania » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:44 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to respond. This is definitely confusing stuff.

A comma followed by an -ing word generally does NOT modify the noun (if any) right before the comma. That is, a "comma -ing" set-up is not a traditional noun modifier; it is an adverbial modifier (modifying things other than nouns only).

The easiest way to test a "comma -ing" is to think of it as modifying the clause preceding the comma, focusing on the noun and the verb (and object, if applicable - but you can really just concentrate on the noun and verb). If it makes sense to modify the noun and the verb, then it's okay. If it doesn't, then it's not.

In your first example, the letters (that is, the noun before the comma) are the eyewitness accounts. A "comma -ing" setup is NOT supposed to modify only the noun right before the comma. Further, it doesn't make sense to say "the nephew wrote" is modified by "being the only eyewitness accounts." So this one's wrong.

In your second example, the fact that "the eagles left (their nests)" is what resulted in having 34 eagles in the wild, so the "comma -ing" setup is correctly referring to the previous clause (noun-verb).

In the third one, the main clause is "Iroquois were planters" but the stuff after the comma is meant to introduce different things they did besides planting. In order to use a "comma -ing" set-up, we should be commenting directly on or further explaining something in that main clause... but we aren't here. In contrast, look at your second example. The "comma -ing" part there is clearly providing additional detail about the main clause.
Stacey,

I am posting a a question from OG in the same line. It's an OG problem but just a one line explanation would help.

Emily Dickinson's letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan's marriage to Emily's brother and ending shortly before Emily's death in 1886, outnumbering her letters to anyone else.

here can we have 'outnumbering' to modify the wole previous clause? Pl. help.

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by ansumania » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:23 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:
This is from MGMAT CAT, in this A is wrong and explanations says that Having been won modifies Classical guitar, however ing modifiers modifies the entire clause.
The explanation could have been a bit more detailed. When you talk about an adverbial modifier (eg, a "comma -ing" modifier), you can talk about it modifying the subject of the preceding clause or the subject+verb of the preceding clause or the verb of the preceding clause. The point is that it does NOT modify only the object (or some other noun that is not the subject) of the preceding clause.

The preceding clause uses a pronoun as the subject ("it was revived by Segovia") and that pronoun refers to "classical guitar." So the modifier technically modifies "classical guitar revived by Segovia": that is, the classical guitar revived by Segovia was won over by the instrument's sound. The guitar... not Segovia. No good.
Stacey,

you mentioned before that ', ing' modifier modifies subject and the verb (infact , it can modify everything but not the OBJECT or any other noun). Here , it is says that 'classical guitar was revived by Segovia'. Here Segovia is the subject and classical guitar is the object. (pl. comment on this one first so that I can ensure that my understanding is correct abut sub and obj). If that is the case, shouldn't 'having' automatically modify 'segovia' which is the subject? Or is it that because of the presence of 'having been' (, ing + been) makes it refer to the object and NOT the subject.

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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:40 pm
Recieved a PM asking me to respond.
I have one more question regarding this gmatprep Q. Choice C has a comma-ing modifier (,having). Does it modify the clause "that did it....AN" ?
and "that" refers to AN right ?
KG became... <and> only after that did it move... newspapers, having

The stuff before the and is one independent clause (complete sentence) and the stuff after is another independent clause (complete sentence).

The "comma having" modifier definitely modifies the previous clause (the stuff after the and). It's a bit ambiguous as to whether it modifies both clauses. In this case, I'd be inclined to say it does because of the "only after that" setup of the second independent clause.

She studied hard and then she got into business school, having earned a high GMAT score.

Yuck. That's a mouthful! In such a construction, the "comma -ing" has to modify the preceding independent clause. Whether it modifies both... I think that's up for debate.
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:54 pm
here can we have 'outnumbering' to modify the wole previous clause? Pl. help.
Paraphrasing:

Her letters to another person were written over a long period of time, outnumbering her letters to any other person.

To be constructed correctly, the words in the modifier must refer to the entire preceding clause. Do they?

No. The number of letters allows us to talk about "outnumbering" her letters to others. But the "outnumbering" concept has nothing to do with the length of time over which she wrote those letters. She could have written them all in one (frenzied!) week. The "outnumbering" modifier does not address letters written over a long period of time. No good.
it can modify everything but not the OBJECT or any other noun
Almost... but not quite. The "comma -ing" modifier modifies the entire preceding clause, which can include a noun or an object. But it does not modify ONLY the object, or ONLY another noun. It has to include the verb / action.

Re: the rest of your question, can you please transcribe the text of the problem? It's really hard for me to follow what you're saying when I can't see the actual sentence that you're talking about.

I THINK (but can't tell for sure without being able to read the actual sentence) that this is the issue: part of the sentence is "it was revived by Segovia," where the pronoun "it" refers to "classical guitar." We can re-write the sentence: classical guitar was revived by Segovia.

In that sentence, "classical guitar" (or "it") is the subject, not Segovia.

A "comma -ing" modifier that follows Segovia, then, would have to modify the entire clause, and especially the core of that clause, which is the subject and verb.

It sounds like the modifier was something like "having been won over by the instrument's sound."

This sentence would then be saying that the classical guitar revived (by Segovia) was won over by its own sound. The revived classical guitar was somehow won over by itself? :)
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by ansumania » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:37 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:
here can we have 'outnumbering' to modify the wole previous clause? Pl. help.
Paraphrasing:

Her letters to another person were written over a long period of time, outnumbering her letters to any other person.

To be constructed correctly, the words in the modifier must refer to the entire preceding clause. Do they?

No. The number of letters allows us to talk about "outnumbering" her letters to others. But the "outnumbering" concept has nothing to do with the length of time over which she wrote those letters. She could have written them all in one (frenzied!) week. The "outnumbering" modifier does not address letters written over a long period of time. No good.
it can modify everything but not the OBJECT or any other noun
Almost... but not quite. The "comma -ing" modifier modifies the entire preceding clause, which can include a noun or an object. But it does not modify ONLY the object, or ONLY another noun. It has to include the verb / action.

Re: the rest of your question, can you please transcribe the text of the problem? It's really hard for me to follow what you're saying when I can't see the actual sentence that you're talking about.

I THINK (but can't tell for sure without being able to read the actual sentence) that this is the issue: part of the sentence is "it was revived by Segovia," where the pronoun "it" refers to "classical guitar." We can re-write the sentence: classical guitar was revived by Segovia.

In that sentence, "classical guitar" (or "it") is the subject, not Segovia.

A "comma -ing" modifier that follows Segovia, then, would have to modify the entire clause, and especially the core of that clause, which is the subject and verb.

It sounds like the modifier was something like "having been won over by the instrument's sound."

This sentence would then be saying that the classical guitar revived (by Segovia) was won over by its own sound. The revived classical guitar was somehow won over by itself? :)
Thanks Stacey! Now it makes sense...I was confused a bit:(