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Have swept or Had swept from OG12/4

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by gmatmachoman » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:16 am
Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept

through history, maybe none is more concentrated as

the wave that brought 12 million immigrants onto

American shores in little more than three decades.

(A) maybe none is more concentrated as
(B) it may be that none is more concentrated as
(C) perhaps it is none that is more concentrated
than
(D) maybe it is none that was more concentrated
than
(E) perhaps none was more concentrated than

Souce OG 12.
Agreed OA is E.

My query is : "have swept" is present perfect but I suppose we should use "past perfect"(had swept) in that place.

plz share ur view.Guys the craziest thing that happened today is after solving 50 Kaplan SC questions at a strecth ,I tried some OG CR questions..But without solving them as CR, I was looking those sentences for any SC errors..

Hahaha!!
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by komal » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:45 am
My query is : "have swept" is present perfect but I suppose we should use "past perfect"(had swept) in that place.

Here's my take :

Present Perfect tense shows something that has happened in the PAST, that may or may not yet be completed. It often suggests that the past action is influencing events in the present.

Past Perfect tense tense is used to show action that was started and completed in the past.

In the above passage nothing suggests that 'migration' started and completed in the past. Hence usage of 'have swept' is correct.
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by gmatmachoman » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:21 am
Komal,

here both are actions are taken place in the "past"..Agreed right?? If so why are we using Have swept (present perfect) and was(past tense) for the 2 actions??

Are we not shifting the tenses??

I guess if we use Had swept & was...(Both the actions are mentioned in past perfect & past tense respectively) will be fitting.
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by iamcste » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:37 am
guys, just a clue, dont know it really helps

present perfect tense is used when the event started in the past and still in action or event has completed and its effect is still being observed. Clearly, this example is latter case...the migration happened in the past but arent those migrated people still a part of US ? they are, so the effect is still there, hence present perfect...
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by gmatmachoman » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:45 am
iamcste wrote:guys, just a clue, dont know it really helps

present perfect tense is used when the event started in the past and still in action or event has completed and its effect is still being observed. Clearly, this example is latter case...the migration happened in the past but arent those migrated people still a part of US ? they are, so the effect is still there, hence present perfect...
Agreed. If that is the case why are using past tense "was" in the underlined portion as mentioned as OA(E).

It should be as:

Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept

through history, perhaps none is more concentrated than
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by iamcste » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:08 am
gmatmachoman wrote:
iamcste wrote:guys, just a clue, dont know it really helps

present perfect tense is used when the event started in the past and still in action or event has completed and its effect is still being observed. Clearly, this example is latter case...the migration happened in the past but arent those migrated people still a part of US ? they are, so the effect is still there, hence present perfect...
Agreed. If that is the case why are using past tense "was" in the underlined portion as mentioned as OA(E).

It should be as:

Of all the vast tides of migration that have swept

through history, perhaps none is more concentrated than
I see your point dude, may be its good idea to ping Ron or Stuart or testLuv. stacy is out till 08.03,

what you think?? experttttttttttttttsssssssssss?

also, there is something which tells me "is" is incorrect and I am not able to put it across, did the same thing happen to you...also are you going by the rule that most of times "past perfect" for the oldest event and simple past for the past event..but we have to notice here oldest event is migration and its effect can still be there, so we need to get it confirmed from the experts an exception to the usual present perfect/past perfect rule...great find machoman...lets stay tuned...
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by fibbonnaci » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 am
Note: Past perfect is applied when there are 2 events in the past. The one occuring later in the past time line is assigned the past tense and the event occuring after the first event is assigned simple past.

Here we are referring to all the migration that have occured in history. Note: Present perfect implies an event that started in the past and is applied until now. We are comparing all the migrations that have occured until today. Here there is no past event. The event has started in the past and is applied to even today. When there are no 2 events in the past, how will past perfect be suitable??
Got it??

Hope i have cleared ur doubt!
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by iamcste » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:14 am
fibbonnaci wrote:Note: Past perfect is applied when there are 2 events in the past. The one occuring later in the past time line is assigned the past tense and the event occuring after the first event is assigned simple past.

Here we are referring to all the migration that have occured in history. Note: Present perfect implies an event that started in the past and is applied until now. We are comparing all the migrations that have occured until today. Here there is no past event. The event has started in the past and is applied to even today. When there are no 2 events in the past, how will past perfect be suitable??
Got it??

Hope i have cleared ur doubt!
so why do we have ....none "was"?
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by gmatmachoman » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:34 am
iamcste wrote:
fibbonnaci wrote:Note: Past perfect is applied when there are 2 events in the past. The one occuring later in the past time line is assigned the past tense and the event occuring after the first event is assigned simple past.

Here we are referring to all the migration that have occured in history. Note: Present perfect implies an event that started in the past and is applied until now. We are comparing all the migrations that have occured until today. Here there is no past event. The event has started in the past and is applied to even today. When there are no 2 events in the past, how will past perfect be suitable??
Got it??

Hope i have cleared ur doubt!
so why do we have ....none "was"?
dude that toning was awesome..hahahhahah...Guys plz forgive me if i am blowing out things out of proportion!

fibo..plz plz answer that!!!
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by fibbonnaci » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:49 am
one event that occured in the past is being compared to all the events that have occured till now.
So the past event is denoted with a simple past . This past event (ie. one specific event that has occured in the past- that event that got 12 million immigrants) is compared to all the events until now( ie all the events in the past and all the events till now. so what tense is needed for an event has started in the past and is applicable even today? That is the reason why we denote all the other events in the present perfect!)

Hope this clarifies!
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by iamcste » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:17 am
fibbonnaci wrote:one event that occured in the past is being compared to all the events that have occured till now.
So the past event is denoted with a simple past . This past event (ie. one specific event that has occured in the past- that event that got 12 million immigrants) is compared to all the events until now( ie all the events in the past and all the events till now. so what tense is needed for an event has started in the past and is applicable even today? That is the reason why we denote all the other events in the present perfect!)

Hope this clarifies!
Fibo..thanks for your comments

i think we are getting close but somethings are still not clear to me. " the wave that brought..." in the past tense is used for the event that brought 12 million immirgants...

"None ( of all those events ) was more concentrated than" so none is associated with all the other events including present migrations, Is still "was" justified?
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by rohan_vus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:24 am
Quality discussion !!!
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by gmatmachoman » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:33 am
rohan_vus wrote:Quality discussion !!!
Rohan..rohan..

Credit goes to me right???Hahahha So only I brought in Fibo on the table....

Dude...to start with Komal started..and few others pitched in.....and Iamcste.. paved the way..and fibo was well enuf to sustain...

yeah agreed this one is a quality discussion as I expected it to be....!!

I shall ping TesLuv to share his TP..

Lovely Guys,keep debating...Virtual debates are the best reality shows...!!
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