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Absolute Inequalities

Expert replies
Source: — Data Sufficiency |

by Rahul@gurome » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:10 pm
Given: x² > y²
Implies |x| > |y|

Statement 1: x > |y|
Certainly x is positive. Now y can be positive or negative. If y is negative, x is obviously greater than y (as x is positive). If y is positive, then its absolute value that is y itself is less than x. Thus x > y always.

Sufficient.

Statement 2: |x| > y
If x is positive, this statement directly implies x > y.
If x is negative, then two possible cases
  • 1. y positive => y > x (Example: x = -5, y = 2)
    2. y negative => x < y as |x| > |y|
Not sufficient.

The correct answer is A.
Rahul Lakhani
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On MBA sabbatical (at ISB) for 2011-12 - will stay active as time permits
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by gmatusa2010 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:22 pm
Rahul,

Here's my approach, is it correct?


X^2-Y^2>0 meaning X+Y and X-Y have to have the same sign. I'm just going to look at Statement 2 here:

2) |X|>Y means X>Y or X-Y>0 OR -X>Y meaning X+Y<0 (Is this correct re-statement?)

Since the signs have to be the same when X-Y then X+Y is also positive, that step is meaningless because it already answer our question of is X-Y>0.

The second condition of X+Y<0 means X-Y also has to be less than Zero. Now we have two scenarios that will satisfy X^2-Y^2 but gives different result of X-Y so insufficient.
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by Night reader » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:23 pm
gmatusa2010 wrote:If X^2>Y^2 is X>y?

1) X>|Y|
2) |X|>Y


Let's see some different approaches....
simplifying problem => |x|>|y| => x>y and x<y

st(1) x>y and x>-y => x>y only if -x<-y, however st(1) defines only -x<y, Not sufficient
st(2) x>y and -x>y => x>y only if -x<-y, however st(2) defines only x<-y, Not sufficient

Combining st(1&2) => x>-y and -x>y we get |x|<|y| from where only possible x<y Satisfies - Answer No x<y

IOM C
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by Rahul@gurome » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:38 pm
@gmatusa2010: Yes you are correct! :)
Night reader wrote:simplifying problem => |x|>|y| => x>y and x<y

st(1) x>y and x>-y => x>y only if -x<-y, however st(1) defines only -x<y, Not sufficient
st(2) x>y and -x>y => x>y only if -x<-y, however st(2) defines only x<-y, Not sufficient
These are not AND cases, they are OR cases.

x > |y| implies either x > y (if y is positive) or x > -y (if y is negative).
As of your consideration both of them are simultaneously true which is not possible. Same for statement 2.
Rahul Lakhani
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by Night reader » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:42 pm
yes Rahul, I see my mistakes. I approached mods mechanically, better was plug-in to see that A is correct.
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by gmatusa2010 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:42 pm
Rahul,

I noticed that when u did your cases there were 3. X is positive, X is negative and Y negative, and X is negative and Y is positive. I got the statement correctly but am I missing things with just two cases?
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by SUHAILK » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:53 pm
statement 1:

x > |y| ==> x > 0 ---(1)

now lets see whether x > y :

case 1) y > 0

==> x >|y| = x > y (if y > 0 |y| = y) -- yes x > y

case 2) y< 0

x > 0 from inequality (1) & y < 0 ...==> yes x > y

Hence Statement 1 is Sufficient


Statement 2:

|x| > y lets assume |x| = K (positive real no) , so now we can rewrite statement 2 as

y < K (a positive real no)

above inequality can be represented on number line as given below:

Image

means y can be positive or negative

with this knowledge lets check whether x > y

case 1 : x > 0

then
|x| > y = x > y ==> yes x > y

case 2 : x < 0

to understand x > y under this condition lets take some e.g

example 1: x = -4 => |x| = 4 => y < 4 => y = (....-5,-4, -3 , -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3)

=> for some cases x > y and for some cases x < y

hence Statement 2 is Insufficient

Answer A


Please let me know if my answer is correct or not.
[/img]
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by anshumishra » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:02 pm
X^2 > y^2 => |x| > |y|

Is x > y ?

Let us represent the relationship (|x| > |y|) on a number line :


--------------X'-----Y'-------0--------Y----X------------------


Statement 1:

x > |y| , Since |y| is always non-negative, that means x = X' in the diagram above
Hence, clearly X > Y ---- Sufficient


Statement 2 :

|x| > y
which is true for both X and X'
When x = X, then X > Y,
but when x = X' then x < Y

hence - Insufficient

Answer is A.
Last edited by anshumishra on Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by gmatusa2010 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:12 pm
Interesting approach... how did you get x^2=y^2?
anshumishra wrote:X^2 = y^2 => |x| > |y|

Is x > y ?

Let us represent the relationship (|x| > |y|) on a number line :


--------------X'-----Y'-------0--------Y----X------------------


Statement 1:

x > |y| , Since |y| is always non-negative, that means x = X' in the diagram above
Hence, clearly X > Y ---- Sufficient


Statement 2 :

|x| > y
which is true for both X and X'
When x = X, then X > Y,
but when x = X' then x < Y

hence - Insufficient

Answer is A.
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by anshumishra » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:15 pm
gmatusa2010 wrote:Interesting approach... how did you get x^2=y^2?
anshumishra wrote:X^2 = y^2 => |x| > |y|

Is x > y ?

Let us represent the relationship (|x| > |y|) on a number line :


--------------X'-----Y'-------0--------Y----X------------------


Statement 1:

x > |y| , Since |y| is always non-negative, that means x = X' in the diagram above
Hence, clearly X > Y ---- Sufficient


Statement 2 :

|x| > y
which is true for both X and X'
When x = X, then X > Y,
but when x = X' then x < Y

hence - Insufficient

Answer is A.
Hey gmatusa2010, that was a typo, I have fixed it.

It is in the given question :

If X^2>Y^2 is X>y?

1) X>|Y|
2) |X|>Y
Last edited by anshumishra on Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Rahul@gurome » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:21 pm
gmatusa2010 wrote:Rahul,

I noticed that when u did your cases there were 3. X is positive, X is negative and Y negative, and X is negative and Y is positive. I got the statement correctly but am I missing things with just two cases?
No, you're not missing anything.
Note that my first case "If x is positive, this statement directly implies x > y" is same as your first case "X-Y>0". 2nd and 3rd cases of my analysis is also same as the 2nd one of yours (This equivalence is not so direct as the 1st one).
Rahul Lakhani
Quant Expert
Gurome, Inc.
https://www.GuroMe.com
On MBA sabbatical (at ISB) for 2011-12 - will stay active as time permits
1-800-566-4043 (USA)
+91-99201 32411 (India)
Join the discussion