BREAKING: Target Test Prep releases Brand New 2026 On Demand GMAT prep course

Redeem

CR Inference

This topic has expert replies
Post new topic Post Reply
Previous Topic Next Topic
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

CR Inference

by mundasingh123 » Sat May 14, 2011 9:25 am
Although spraying disinfectant on toys in preschools generally kills most germs that cause illnesses, such as the common cold, many pediatricians no longer recommend this practice. Exposure to germs that cause the common cold and other non-dangerous illnesses helps young children to develop a degree of immunity to fight other, more serious pathogens.

If the statements above are true, which of the following conclusions is most strongly supported by them?

(A)

Disinfecting toys for germs can reduce the spread of a variety of communicable diseases among children who attend preschools.
(B)Disinfectant can reduce children's immunity to serious illnesses by reducing the chance that children are exposed to germs that cause common illnesses.

(C)

Disinfecting toys for the germs that cause the common cold weakens young children's immune systems.
(D)

The more common cold-causing germs a small child is exposed to, the less severe the common cold will be if the child does contract it.
(E)

The field of pediatrics is currently focused on limiting young children's exposure to germs, especially germs spread in public places like schools and playgrounds.
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top
Source: — Critical Reasoning |
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

Expert Reply

by mundasingh123 » Sat May 14, 2011 9:37 am
I came across the following cr while browsing the Knewton Answer site.

I find The explanation that Knewton has provided a bit confusing
For example the stimulus says that spraying disinfectant kills germs that spread diseases such as common cold
The answer choice A is
Disinfecting toys for germs can reduce the spread of a variety of communicable diseases among children who attend preschools.
Knewton correlates the reduction in spread of disseases with an increase in immunity
knewton says that since the stimulus says that since spraying disinfectant reduces exposure to the germs that increase immunity , disinfecting is detrimental to the increase in immunity which is exactly the opposite of what A says .
This is how Knewton eliminates A but isnt " reduce a variety of communicable diseases among children who attend preschools." correct since its mentioned in the stimulus that spraying disinfectant kills germs that cause illnesses such as common cold .
Kewton also tries to explain the difference between "reduce immunity and weaken immunity " which i didnt understand at all.
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sun May 15, 2011 8:28 am
this problem is clearly based on #70 in OG12, with the following substitutions:
aspirin in #70 --> disinfectant, here
moderate fever in #70 --> germs, here
stimulate white blood cells and inhibit bacteria in #70 --> develop immunity, here

looking at og12 #70 may help you to understand this problem better; apparently, the knewton guys didn't even bother to scramble the answer choices, so you can compare (a) to (a), (b) to (b), and so on.
the only choice that has been changed significantly is (a); the other four are more or less exact analogies to their og counterparts.

--
This is how Knewton eliminates A but isnt " reduce a variety of communicable diseases among children who attend preschools." correct since its mentioned in the stimulus that spraying disinfectant kills germs that cause illnesses such as common cold .
yeah -- i agree that there are problems with this choice.

first of all, there's the word "can", which is sufficiently weak that it's very easily justified. (i.e., if the answer choice said "justified" more definitively -- without "can" -- then it would be easier to eliminate on the grounds of that artificial certainty.)
and, more importantly, there's the word "variety" ... if "a variety" refers to just the diseases whose germs are being eradicated by the disinfectant, then, yes, i agree that the statement is supported. on the other hand, if "a variety" also includes the "other, more serious pathogens" mentioned at the end of the passage, then this statement runs counter to the content of the passage (because the children are now less protected against those serious pathogens, according to the given information).

so, in sum, i agree that choice (a) is not sufficiently incorrect to be wrong on an actual GMAC test.

--
Kewton also tries to explain the difference between "reduce immunity and weaken immunity " which i didnt understand at all.
is it worded in terms of
(a) reducing immunity to a particular disease
vs.
(b) weakening the immune system in general?

if so, that is a massive difference.
as an analogy, if there are no available books for learning Basque (a language spoken in northeastern Spain), then that is going to significantly impact my ability to learn Basque ... but it is not going to weaken my ability to learn languages in general.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron
Top
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

by mundasingh123 » Sun May 15, 2011 8:57 am
Hi Ron Thanks for the Reply
My question was w.r.t choices B and C .B says that disinfecting reduces immunity and C says that Disinfecting weakens the immune system . I request that you refer to the following url as well https://www.beatthegmat.com/difference-b ... tml#365010
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

by mundasingh123 » Sun May 15, 2011 9:04 am
Hi Ron are you saying this because a person can get sick even after the germs are killed by disinfecting
or
Is it because disinfecting does not guarantee that all germs will be killed (Because the stimulus says "most germs ")
First of all, there's the word "can", which is sufficiently weak that it's very easily justified. (i.e., if the answer choice said "justified" more definitively -- without "can" -- then it would be easier to eliminate on the grounds of that artificial certainty.)
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon May 16, 2011 10:13 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:Hi Ron Thanks for the Reply
My question was w.r.t choices B and C .B says that disinfecting reduces immunity and C says that Disinfecting weakens the immune system .
you are not taking note of the important part of the distinction --
choice (b) says "reduce children's immunity to serious illnesses" --> i.e., to reduce the immune response that these children have to the particular diseases in question.
choice (c) refers to weakening the children's entire immune system, which is something very different.

did you understand the analogy that i made in the previous post?
* if there are no books from which i can learn the Basque language, then that situation will reduce my ability to learn that particular language (similar to choice b), but it will have no effect on my ability to learn languages in general (similar to c).
* if i suffer brain damage to the lobes that control language learning, then that situation will have an overall effect on my ability to learn languages in general (similar to c).
I request that you refer to the following url as well https://www.beatthegmat.com/difference-b ... tml#365010
i'm not following the point of the separate url.
i.e., why didn't you just post that here? is there some other issue that i'm not noticing?
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon May 16, 2011 10:19 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:Hi Ron are you saying this because a person can get sick even after the germs are killed by disinfecting
or
Is it because disinfecting does not guarantee that all germs will be killed (Because the stimulus says "most germs ")
First of all, there's the word "can", which is sufficiently weak that it's very easily justified. (i.e., if the answer choice said "justified" more definitively -- without "can" -- then it would be easier to eliminate on the grounds of that artificial certainty.)
i'm sorry, i don't follow.

in the part of the post that you quoted, i was just pointing out that the word "can" -- in general -- makes a choice much easier to justify (and much harder to disprove). since that choice is intended as an incorrect answer choice, "can" is troublesome there, because it renders that choice extremely hard to eliminate.

--

in any case, i think that most of the productive discussion around this problem has been exhausted, especially because there are some flaws in the wording of the answer choices themselves.

because the problem is clearly based on OG12 #70 (and is inferior to that problem, in terms of how well it conforms to the template of official problems), at this point it's probably best to turn your attention back to OG12 #70. you'll get more out of the OG problem, and it's unlikely that the problem in this thread will give any useful insights that are not also provided by the official problem upon which it is based.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron
Top
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

by mundasingh123 » Tue May 17, 2011 1:44 am
Hi Ron , I created 2 different threads since they served 2 different purposes . The purpose of this thread was to find out why A cant be correct and the purpose of the other thread the url to which i put up in my last post was to discuss the difference in the implications of the phrase "reduce immunity " and "weaken the immune system "
This was the only reason why created 2 threads
i'm not following the point of the separate url.
i.e., why didn't you just post that here? is there some other issue that i'm not noticing?
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top
Legendary Member
Posts: 2330
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
Thanked: 56 times
Followed by:26 members

by mundasingh123 » Tue May 17, 2011 1:48 am
i'm sorry, i don't follow.

in the part of the post that you quoted, i was just pointing out that the word "can" -- in general -- makes a choice much easier to justify (and much harder to disprove). since that choice is intended as an incorrect answer choice, "can" is troublesome there, because it renders that choice extremely hard to eliminate.
Hi ron , My question was with respect to the situations that i could make out from wording of the answer choice just in case i wanted to justify how A could be correct . Thanks for pointing me towards og 70 . Ill go through . Thanks for clearing the issue on the feasiblity of A as the correct answer[/quote]
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
Top

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Wed May 18, 2011 12:39 am
mundasingh123 wrote:
i'm sorry, i don't follow.

in the part of the post that you quoted, i was just pointing out that the word "can" -- in general -- makes a choice much easier to justify (and much harder to disprove). since that choice is intended as an incorrect answer choice, "can" is troublesome there, because it renders that choice extremely hard to eliminate.
Hi ron , My question was with respect to the situations that i could make out from wording of the answer choice just in case i wanted to justify how A could be correct . Thanks for pointing me towards og 70 . Ill go through . Thanks for clearing the issue on the feasiblity of A as the correct answer
[/quote]

yeah, #70 is a better resource here. i agree that choice (a) in this example has problems.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron
Top
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:05 am
Location: Bhopal
Thanked: 1 times
GMAT Score:710

by mk101 » Wed May 18, 2011 6:29 am
@Ron - thanx for that clarification - reducing immunity Vs Weakening immunity ...

@Mundasingh - Yesterday, I saw this question ... I HAD marked the answer as option C ..looking at the above discussion the answer seems to be B.. what is the OA??
Top
User avatar
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:47 pm
Thanked: 2 times

by gtr02 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:28 am
darn, i marked C too!

OA: B
src: https://answers.knewton.com/entries/2002 ... sinfectant
Top
User avatar
Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: New York
Thanked: 7 times
Followed by:2 members

by sashish007 » Mon May 23, 2011 1:45 am
great discussion here. appreciate if the 'spoiler' is used to hide the OA. thanks
Ashish
Share not just why the right answer is right, but also why the wrong ones are not.
Top
Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 1:10 pm

by joshua868 » Wed May 25, 2011 7:47 am
lunarpower wrote:this problem is clearly based on #70 in OG12, with the following substitutions:
aspirin in #70 --> disinfectant, here
moderate fever in #70 --> germs, here
stimulate white blood cells and inhibit bacteria in #70 --> develop immunity, here

looking at og12 #70 may help you to understand this problem better; apparently, the knewton guys didn't even bother to scramble the answer choices, so you can compare (a) to (a), (b) to (b), and so on.
the only choice that has been changed significantly is (a); the other four are more or less exact analogies to their og counterparts.

--

Thanks Ron.
Top
User avatar
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:36 am
Location: gurgaon
Thanked: 8 times
Followed by:2 members

by itsmebharat » Thu May 26, 2011 1:59 am
(A) Disinfecting toys for germs can reduce the spread of a variety of communicable diseases among children who attend preschools.

The argument is talking about disinfecting toys can effect the childeren immune system to fight against X
where as the statement A says disinfecting toys for germs can reduce the spread of diseases.

(B) Disinfectant can reduce children's immunity to serious illnesses by reducing the chance that children are exposed to germs that cause common illnesses.

(C) Disinfecting toys for the germs that cause the common cold weakens young children's immune systems.
that cause, here we are talking about a particular cause that cause only cold
I am not an Expert, please feel free to suggest if there is an error.
Top
Post new topic Post Reply