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700+ Electorate

by challenger63 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:37 pm
On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate,
which cannot reasonably be disputed in light of the legislative record.

A. On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate, which
B. This state's elected officials, ignoring on this issue the wishes of their electorate,
C. That this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate
D. On this issue, the wishes of the electorate were ignored by this state's elected officials, and
E. That the wishes of the electorate on this issue were ignored by this state's elected officials

Answered correctly.

OA: E
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by tanviet » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:49 pm
if you want to study hard sc, study hard sc from gmatprep first and this is enough. I never study hard sc from other sourse.

why? I do not think that imitation of official question is easy, specifically imitation of hard ones.
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by challenger63 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:06 pm
I don't want to be rude, but I have to consider your answer as a spam.

It's your choice. You can study whatever you want. Your opinion about GMAT preparation doesn't relate to this particular question with specified source.

duongthang wrote:if you want to study hard sc, study hard sc from gmatprep first and this is enough. I never study hard sc from other sourse.

why? I do not think that imitation of official question is easy, specifically imitation of hard ones.
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by avik.ch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:50 pm
challenger63 wrote:On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate,
which cannot reasonably be disputed in light of the legislative record.

A. On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate, which
B. This state's elected officials, ignoring on this issue the wishes of their electorate,
C. That this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate
D. On this issue, the wishes of the electorate were ignored by this state's elected officials, and
E. That the wishes of the electorate on this issue were ignored by this state's elected officials

Answered correctly.

OA: E
Source: Master the GMAT
GMAT do not use "this" as a stand alone determiners in the correct answer as all GMAT sentences are written in third person.

And, can you share the OE for why E is correct.


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Last edited by avik.ch on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by patanjali.purpose » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:52 pm
challenger63 wrote:On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate,
which cannot reasonably be disputed in light of the legislative record.

A. On this issue, this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate, which
B. This state's elected officials, ignoring on this issue the wishes of their electorate,
C. That this state's elected officials ignored the wishes of their electorate
D. On this issue, the wishes of the electorate were ignored by this state's elected officials, and
E. That the wishes of the electorate on this issue were ignored by this state's elected officials

Answered correctly.

OA: E
Source: Master the GMAT
A - use of WHICH wrong; Not clear WHAT CANNOT reasonably be disputed - WISHES OF ELECTORATE or ELECTED OFFICIALS or their decision to IGNORE THE WISHES; IMO sentence intends to suggest that the THE FACT THAT OFFICIALS IGNORE WISHES cannot be disputed
B - IGNORING...ELECTORATE is made non-essential; IMO that's a change in meaning
C - change in meaning (it suggests STATE'S OFFICIALS CANNOT BE DISPUTED
D - use of AND suggests IGNORING AND DISPUTING are not related events

Another problem I notice in A/B/C is use of THEIR. What does it refer to? Does it refer to STATE'S ELECTORATE or STATE'S OFFICIALS' electorate. From this perspective,IMO "THE ELECTORATE" is better

IMO E
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by avik.ch » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:08 pm
patanjali.purpose wrote: A - use of WHICH wrong; Not clear WHAT CANNOT reasonably be disputed - WISHES OF ELECTORATE or ELECTED OFFICIALS or their decision to IGNORE THE WISHES; IMO sentence intends to suggest that the THE FACT THAT OFFICIALS IGNORE WISHES cannot be disputed
B - IGNORING...ELECTORATE is made non-essential; IMO that's a change in meaning
C - change in meaning (it suggests STATE'S OFFICIALS CANNOT BE DISPUTED
D - use of AND suggests IGNORING AND DISPUTING are not related events

Another problem I notice in A/B/C is use of THEIR. What does it refer to? Does it refer to STATE'S ELECTORATE or STATE'S OFFICIALS' electorate. From this perspective,IMO "THE ELECTORATE" is better

IMO E
good explanation !!

But what is "this" is referring to in E. "This" generally signify shared information - when the reader know what is being discussed. As a reader, I cannot comprehend what "this issue" or "this state's electorate officials" are. So I am eager to know the official explanation for E.
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by patanjali.purpose » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:14 am
avik.ch wrote:
patanjali.purpose wrote: A - use of WHICH wrong; Not clear WHAT CANNOT reasonably be disputed - WISHES OF ELECTORATE or ELECTED OFFICIALS or their decision to IGNORE THE WISHES; IMO sentence intends to suggest that the THE FACT THAT OFFICIALS IGNORE WISHES cannot be disputed
B - IGNORING...ELECTORATE is made non-essential; IMO that's a change in meaning
C - change in meaning (it suggests STATE'S OFFICIALS CANNOT BE DISPUTED
D - use of AND suggests IGNORING AND DISPUTING are not related events

Another problem I notice in A/B/C is use of THEIR. What does it refer to? Does it refer to STATE'S ELECTORATE or STATE'S OFFICIALS' electorate. From this perspective,IMO "THE ELECTORATE" is better

IMO E
good explanation !!

But what is "this" is referring to in E. "This" generally signify shared information - when the reader know what is being discussed. As a reader, I cannot comprehend what "this issue" or "this state's electorate officials" are. So I am eager to know the official explanation for E.
Avik,

IMO "THIS ISSUE or THIS STATE'S OFFICIALS" is NOT wrong; use of THIS without an attached entity (not sure just NOUN or something else is also allowed) is wrong.

Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests in western Scotland this summer, bringing to 34 the number of wild birds successfully raised since transplants from Norway began in 1975. THIS is there in NON-UNDERLINE part of the sentence.
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by avik.ch » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:14 am
patanjali.purpose wrote:Avik,

use of THIS without an attached entity (not sure just NOUN or something else is also allowed) is wrong.
yes !!
patanjali.purpose wrote:Five fledgling sea eagles left their nests in western Scotland this summer, bringing to 34 the number of wild birds successfully raised since transplants from Norway began in 1975. THIS is there in NON-UNDERLINE part of the sentence.
I do not think that this is an apt example.

When we write - "this summer", or "this winter" --- the reader accept it from the perspective of the time frame he or she is reading the text. So this is completely acceptable.

But when we write, "this book", or "this pen" -- the reader cannot refer which book the author is talking about, unless there is a reference (explicit or implicit). here, "this" is acting as an adjective of reference - So what reference ??
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by Tommy Wallach » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:56 pm
Hey Guys,

Gotta agree with Avik here. The GMAT will not use "this" to describe something that hasn't been discussed before. It'll just use "the".

The example of "this summer" is not correct. In that example "this" refers to the most recent (or upcoming summer), and so doesn't require a referent.

You nailed it, Avik.

-t

P.S. Challenger, it could be that the message about source was referring to this error in the question, which makes it slightly iffy as a source. I also agree that pulling in questions from less than reputable sources can be dangerous, though I don't know quite enough about Master to say one way or the other.
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by aditya8062 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:20 pm
good morning Tommy
i have read in some post of Ron ,cannot locate it at the moment ,that pronoun "this" cannot be used as stand alone noun .what he meant by this was that we cannot say "this is " etc but yes we can very well say "this book " because in the expression "this book "this" is acting like an adjective
but now when i read ur post then i get the impression that we cant even use "this book" (coz u said no to "this summer") coz ur logic is that somewhere in the sentence the "summer " or "book" sud have been mentioned .but tell if that is the case then why the following sentence is correct :

I never read this book, but I read the other books on the shelf.
thanks and regards
aditya
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by Tommy Wallach » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:45 pm
Hey Aditya,

This sentence is bad, let's be clear.

The GMAT, as far as I know, doesn't make sentences as if a person is saying them. But this sentence would have to be spoken to make sense. Otherwise, what is this state. The one the person speaking lives in? That's weird.

In your sentence, you are mentioning other books, so it makes sense to specify this book (to differentiate from the other books). The point is you don't need "this" unless you're specifying something.

Or, if you all want to get really fancy:

determiner ( pl. these )
1 used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced: don't listen to this guy | these croissants are delicious.
"¢ referring to the nearer of two things close to the speaker (the other, if specified, being identified by "that"): this one or that one?
2 referring to a specific thing or situation just mentioned: there was a court case resulting from this incident.
3 used with periods of time related to the present: I thought you were busy all this week | how are you this morning?
"¢ referring to a period of time that has just passed: I haven't left my bed these three days.

The first usage doesn't apply here, because the issue isn't close at hand/nearer.
The second usage doesn't apply here, because the issue hasn't been mentioned before
The third usage doesn't make sense here (but it does explain why "this summer" is allowed, and isn't relevant to our current discussion.

Hope that helps!

-t
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