2.5 months of study and 480(45,13) -> 460(38, 16)!

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I did my test today after a intense period of preparation, and I'm both frustrated and disappointed.

On my first attempt I got 480, this was a year ago.

Here are my prep scores with Knewton CATs.
Past exam reports Date completed Q V Total
Diagnostic GMAT 01/10/2011 at 12:21PM 27 24 450
Practice GMAT #1 02/16/2011 at 04:53PM 33 23 470
Practice GMAT #2 03/02/2011 at 05:52PM 30 20 430
Practice GMAT #3 03/11/2011 at 06:15PM 37 27 530
Practice GMAT #4 03/16/2011 at 06:24PM 39 28 550
GMAT Prep(1st repeat) March 25th Q44 V28 600

Actual test. 460(38, 16)

This is extremely annoying because I felt very prepared and the pacing during test was OK, or not a disaster in any way. The only thing i did on the verbal that might be suspicious was that on question ~30, I got a long RC passage, and I randomly guess through all the four questions. But "in-row" random guesses cannot affect the score more than spread out guesses, can it?

shame on me, and I better keep away from GMAT for a while...
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by rishi raj » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:53 am
Oh God! This is indeed disappointing. I wasn't expecting a very high score on Verbal from you,but I was confident that you'd get around 30 on Verbal. Such are the shocks life gives you at times!

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by bkw » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:36 am
I will have a few days off from GMAT now. But then my plan is to work these resources

SC Grail
OG12
OG11
Verbal Review
Quant Review
PowerScore CR bible
RC99
MGMAT SC
MGMAT Number properties
MGMAT Inequalities
(GMAT Premier 2010 Kaplan)
198 Level 700 Questions

Redo all CATs from MGMAT and Knewton, also add the beatthegmat questions.

Have I missed any other useful resources or is this too much?

I know one thing I did not do well on for my preparation. I did not review all my mistakes. I think I had +50 pages of e.g. quant problems I had got wrong, but I simply worked a head instead of reviewing my mistakes which in the end was too much to handle :-(
I think a continuous careful review of the the mistakes need to be permitted. It is boring, but I think there is much gain from understanding the mistakes and try to avoid them in future problems.

My RC performance has been been a disaster for many reasons. Most probably because I am reading too slowly, and I re-read also because my vocabulary of uncommon words are not good. I easily fall for trap/tempting answers too :-(

I think I will have to start reading the economist and e.g. daily paper NY times or similar on daily basis. Maybe an hour of reading per day would be sufficient to improve the comprehension and speed?
I think I will buy a kindle to encourage my daily reading!

Pacing is something else I will have to work on as well. I need to practice to not watch the timer more often than maybe every 5-10 questions or so. This is something Ron has advised.

I think that the real test is sensitive if one guess to often, especially guesses in a row can be disastrous. I guessed a few times on the real test to catch up time wise.
Other problems I have is that when I sit on the real test I trust my ear TOO much and instead of structurally go through SC with grammar rules I pick what sounds good, and I think this is why I easily fall for trap answers. :(

My effort of 2.5 months practice has been insufficient to beat this test, and I need to accept that I will have to set aside another 2-6months to prepare for this test.
Last edited by bkw on Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by nehs » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:51 am
Bkw
Looks like you had a rough day, just as I had last week.
I screwed up my test too! From a higher score to a 480!!! And that too after studying for 3 months! I know what you must be thinking. I went through hell and finally have come to terms with myself and my fate. Moreover I was scoring well in the practice CATs
I'm giving myself 6 months too,to target the test again. Take some days off and come back to the test.
Good Luck

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by arierahayu » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:38 am
Wah, GMAT is truly scary.

Bkw, do you follow Stacey's study guide (linked below)? I think it is useful but I haven't put it on real test yet. What do you think of it?


https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... study-list
Last edited by arierahayu on Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by bkw » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:05 am
nehs wrote:Bkw
Looks like you had a rough day, just as I had last week.
I screwed up my test too! From a higher score to a 480!!! And that too after studying for 3 months! I know what you must be thinking. I went through hell and finally have come to terms with myself and my fate. Moreover I was scoring well in the practice CATs
I'm giving myself 6 months too,to target the test again. Take some days off and come back to the test.
Good Luck
Made any analysis of what possibly could have been wrong for you in prep or on test day?

And what do you think about the beat the gmat practice questions, have they been useful to you?

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by Night reader » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:46 pm
bkw wrote: Actual test. 460(38, 16)

This is extremely annoying because I felt very prepared and the pacing during test was OK, or not a disaster in any way. The only thing i did on the verbal that might be suspicious was that on question ~30, I got a long RC passage, and I randomly guess through all the four questions. But "in-row" random guesses cannot affect the score more than spread out guesses, can it?
Should I also tell you that I got 16 on verbal while MGMAT CAT gave me 39 and GMAT Prep gave me 37, knewton gave me 34 on verbal. Now If you think that getting extra questions incorrect can make your score drop by 15-20 points, you must be insane to take actual GMAT after using all the preparation materials announced on this forum. I have used at least most of the materials introduced on this forum. If this is perfectly sane, then a score of 17 on verbal with ONLY 10 correct questions in GMAT Prep is reported falsely or a score we got (16) could this much depend on the difficulty levels of questions to make 15-20 point reduction happen in the actual test??? Lol! Regarding the actual test, I was aware of the dynamics and spent the last two days relaxing ... I wouldn't say that GMAT CAT is flawed, BUT for some reasons it makes my score to fluctuate within the score range of +-40 points with each test taken (full-proof of the GMAC stats for test score deviation) i.e 90% of the test takers are expected to have their test scores' range +-40 points? :(
reading/verbal pros-cons, 15 days earlier took ETS ibt toefl test and scored 23 for reading with morning session and half-exerted efforts Vs. the comfortable noon session of GMAT exam and the full efforts.
critical reasoning notes, last four weeks were devoted to Princeton's management training manual with practice of trap questions and detailed analysis of all correct, incorrect answer choices.
grammar, achieved 90% accuracy level for last questions in OG12, redone MGMAT SC strategic guide with greater attention.
My knowledge frontiers came to evolve the GMATPill's methods - the credited study means to boost the Verbal competence. I really like their videos, especially for RC, CR and SC. You do check their study methods at https://www.gmatpill.com

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by bkw » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:18 am
arierahayu wrote:Wah, GMAT is truly scary.

Bkw, do you follow Stacey's study guide (linked below)? I think it is useful but I haven't put it on real test yet. What do you think of it?


https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/03/ ... study-list
I have not heard about it. Anyone who can comment on if it is useful?

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by bkw » Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:22 am
bkw wrote: Here are my prep scores with Knewton CATs.
Past exam reports Date completed Q V Total
Diagnostic GMAT 01/10/2011 at 12:21PM 27 24 450
Practice GMAT #1 02/16/2011 at 04:53PM 33 23 470
Practice GMAT #2 03/02/2011 at 05:52PM 30 20 430
Practice GMAT #3 03/11/2011 at 06:15PM 37 27 530
Practice GMAT #4 03/16/2011 at 06:24PM 39 28 550
GMAT Prep(1st repeat) March 25th Q44 V28 600

Actual test. 460(38, 16)
Some self criticism.

Maybe I was not ready for gmat after all if I aimed for 600. I believe that to get a 600 I will have to consistently get 600 or more on all CATs.

I will start working the MGMAT strategy guides and the kaplan premier 2010 in addition to reading the economist, this before I look at the OG problems again.

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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:03 am
bkw wrote:I will have a few days off from GMAT now. But then my plan is to work these resources

SC Grail
OG12
OG11
Verbal Review
Quant Review
PowerScore CR bible
RC99
MGMAT SC
MGMAT Number properties
MGMAT Inequalities
(GMAT Premier 2010 Kaplan)
198 Level 700 Questions

Redo all CATs from MGMAT and Knewton, also add the beatthegmat questions.

Have I missed any other useful resources or is this too much?
frankly, i think that's way too many resources. honestly, the problem that most people here have is studying WAY too much from WAY too many different materials.

the biggest problem is that many, if not most, posters on this forum only consider the problem from the standpoint of the test itself, and fail to consider it from a human psychological standpoint as well.
specifically, what i mean here is that people are approaching the test with the following mentality: "there are thousands of things tested on this exam, so i have to study ALL of those things with exactly the same priority."

the problem with that approach is that the conscious mind can only hold a few concepts at once -- and so you are going to need to prioritize the concepts that you learn, so that you have a manageable number of extremely important things in your head when you try to approach the problems. the more material you study, the harder it is to do this.
in general, you can't really keep more than about 5-6 different items or points of strategy in your conscious mind at any one time (and even that is pushing it). so, if you study 100 pages of material, your job is to narrow those 100 pages to 5-6 (or fewer) main points for each different question type.
but -- here is the kicker -- even if you study 1000 pages of material, your job is STILL to narrow those 1000 pages to 5-6 (or fewer) main points for each different question type. as you might imagine, this is substantially harder than it is if you don't study quite as huge a volume of material.

this is ESPECIALLY the case in sentence correction, in which there are hundreds or even possibly thousands of different concepts to be learned (if you count the vast number of different ideograms and unique conventions).
students need to come to grips with the fact that it's just not going to be possible to absorb all of the hundreds (or even thousands) of different facts that govern sentence correction - in other words, it's going to be necessary to PRIORITIZE those facts, and to think consciously about FEWER things when actually solving the problems.
specifically, i've found that a definite majority of the official sentence correction problems can be solved, or narrowed to two different choices, using only the following five types of considerations: (1) parallelism, (2) pronouns, (3) modifier meaning, (4) modifier placement, and (5) subject-verb agreement. that's only five things, but, taken together, they are actually enough to do the majority of what you have to do on sentence correction.

the problem, then, is to realize that your conscious mind has a very limited capacity for different items, especially when you are focused on a task that involves considerable psychological pressure. therefore, if you struggle with sentence correction, you should try to focus your conscious thought almost exclusively on these five topics - in other words, they should be the only five topics that you should actually LOOK for in the problems - and you should allow all of the other topics you've studied to just come to you spontaneously as you pick through the answer choices.

evidence in support of this position:
i post on these forums a lot, so i'm pretty to a large proportion of the mistakes that posters make.
when i see SC posts from posters who have posted over 1000 times, most of their errors *still* consist of missing basic things like parallelism, pronoun errors, and the like. this evidence shows that doubling down on these fundamentals, rather than trying to learn every little stupid rule of written english, is a better way to go.

analogy:
you ever do one of those word-search puzzles, where you have to find the words in a grid of letters (going up, down, diagonally, or in any other such direction)?
think of the disaster that would result in a puzzle like that if you were trying to look for twenty words at the same time -- you'd be so scatterbrained that you basically wouldn't find any of the words. by contrast, if you were looking for maybe two or three words at a time, you would have a much higher probability of finding those words within a decent amount of time.
this really isn't that much different -- trying to look for tens or even hundreds of things in an SC problem at the same time is exactly like trying to look for tens or hundreds of words in a word search at the same time.

if you look for everything, you'll find nothing.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:03 am
My RC performance has been been a disaster for many reasons. Most probably because I am reading too slowly, and I re-read also because my vocabulary of uncommon words are not good. I easily fall for trap/tempting answers too :-(
if "vocabulary of uncommon words" is a major factor, then you are probably paying far too much attention to details and not looking much for the main point of the passage. in fact, you can usually still find the main point of the passage even if you don't understand most of the technical language in the passage.
for more information, see the JANUARY 6 lecture here:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
I think I will have to start reading the economist and e.g. daily paper NY times or similar on daily basis. Maybe an hour of reading per day would be sufficient to improve the comprehension and speed?
if reading speed is an issue, then this may be a good idea.
this sort of reading won't make any impact on your ability to answer the RC questions, of course, since these articles will not be followed by GMAT-style questions. however, if increasing your general speed and comprehension is the issue, this may be a good idea.

try to stay away from the actual news items in the newspaper -- journalistic practice is to report such items by being as factual as possible, without opinions or "main points". if you read too many of these items, you will become disposed to reading for facts, which is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing on the test.
instead, look for things like editorials or guest pieces, which are more likely to make points that go beyond the facts.
Pacing is something else I will have to work on as well. I need to practice to not watch the timer more often than maybe every 5-10 questions or so. This is something Ron has advised.
yep

Other problems I have is that when I sit on the real test I trust my ear TOO much and instead of structurally go through SC with grammar rules I pick what sounds good, and I think this is why I easily fall for trap answers. :(
another red flag: this sentence is written with the assumption that there are only two things to consider -- "ear" and "grammar".
from the way you've written this, it's almost certain that you aren't thinking enough about the meaning of the sentence.
you has to think about the meaning of the sentence!

remember that grammar by itself is meaningless -- the only purpose of grammar is to convey meaning more accurately. in most sentences, if you don't think about meaning while you read the prompt, you will be completely unable to figure out a large number of the issues in the problem. for instance:
* it's impossible to figure out modifiers without knowing the meaning of the sentence.
* it's impossible to figure out correct antecedent for pronouns without knowing the meaning of the sentence.
* it's impossible to figure out verb tenses without knowing the meaning of the sentence.
etc. etc.

when you read the prompt sentence, you should be thinking ONLY about meaning and maybe parallelism. you should not start hunting for other types of errors until you've internalized the meaning of the sentence and have moved on to the answer choices.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:05 am
also, i noticed that you have knewton tests in your data.
if you have gone through a large number of OG problems prior to taking knewton tests, be aware that the scores you get on the knewton tests will be inflated

almost 100% of the questions i've seen on knewton's tests are basically copies of existing OG problems, with a few words changed here and there; therefore, if you have a significant amount of experience with OG questions, you will have an unfair advantage on these tests.
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by bkw » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:36 am
Thanks for extensive feedback Ron. I really have to try to write couple of the suggestions on paper and look at them daily to get used to it.
To be honest I haven't started any SC till now with meaning as first priority. I guess this is something I need to get used to as a non native. Especially when SC sentences get longer, it will take you time to read and understand the meaning so I think that is why it is so easy to try to rush in to finding grammar errors in the meaning without actually caring too much about what it is trying to say.

For example, I did experience SC on the real test that was something similar to
... , ___ , ...
it was a a adjective phrase that was underlined. And all the answers were different so I couldnt easily split. still I started to look for s-v and other grammar errors. nothing popped out on me so I ended up with guessing, or trusting my ear, after having spent 1-2minutes on a one line sentence. :cry:

Uhm, concerning the Knewton material I had no idea that some were similar to the OG. But if this is the case, then maybe it isn't that bad after all to tryout Veritas and BTG practice questions. Do you have any insight about any of them?

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by ChrisBKnewton » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:42 am
Hey bkw,

First off, it's great that you're working so concertedly to keep improving your GMAT score! I'd agree with Ron and others here that diving into a ton of new practice material might not be the best way to go. It's good to incorporate different approaches, but you should also be wary of burning out by pushing yourself too hard.

One issue I do want to address: it's not the case that your Knewton CATs are copies of questions you'll find in the OG. Our practice tests are designed to predict how you'd perform on test day, which they wouldn't be able to do if they mirrored the actual exam too closely. Since the GMAT uses certain question structures again and again, though, some practice problems will naturally be built on those foundations. This is really how all practice CATs are designed -- if they weren't, they wouldn't provide good practice for test day!

For more info, I'd check out a write-up like mohit11's (Keep Calm and Carry On...). While he used a variety of materials leading up to test day, he found (like many students do) that his Knewton scores nicely anticipated his test day performance.

Hope that helps!

If you have any questions -- or want to check in with a Knewton teacher about the best way to study next -- feel free to get in touch.

Best,

Chris
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by lunarpower » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:28 pm
bkw wrote:Thanks for extensive feedback Ron. I really have to try to write couple of the suggestions on paper and look at them daily to get used to it.
To be honest I haven't started any SC till now with meaning as first priority. I guess this is something I need to get used to as a non native. Especially when SC sentences get longer, it will take you time to read and understand the meaning so I think that is why it is so easy to try to rush in to finding grammar errors in the meaning without actually caring too much about what it is trying to say.
this is interesting -- i think it's probably more a function of the way in which you approach things than of the fact that you are a non-native speaker of the language. in particular, if you work in IT or some related industry, then you probably approach everything else in your professional life from a strictly analytical standpoint, so that sort of perspective is just carrying over into your treatment of the sentences.
in addition, it's well known that people don't tend to employ "common sense" in classroom settings (as a general rule, even -- perhaps even especially -- in the case of very smart people). the meaning of the sentence is completely a common-sense issue -- i.e., there are no rules for determining the intended meaning of a sentence, especially if that sentence is written incorrectly -- and as a result is outside the scope of what many students think about in "academic" settings like this one.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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