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x negativity

Expert replies
by simba12123 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:06 pm
Is X negative?


1. x^3(1-x^2) <0

2. (x^2)-1<0



i simplified statement 1: to 1/(x^3) <0

I simplified statement 2: x^2 <1

I am running into trouble with statements 1 and 2. I believe that I oversimplifed the issue at hand. COnsequently, I am fumbling over picked numbers to prove sufficiency. PLease help!


qa is c
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Source: — Data Sufficiency |

Re: x negativity

by sudhir3127 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:28 pm
simba12123 wrote:Is X negative?


1. x^3(1-x^2) <0

2. (x^2)-1<0



i simplified statement 1: to 1/(x^3) <0

I simplified statement 2: x^2 <1

I am running into trouble with statements 1 and 2. I believe that I oversimplifed the issue at hand. COnsequently, I am fumbling over picked numbers to prove sufficiency. PLease help!


qa is c
i go with C as well...

the most important thing one must understand here is that the Question isnt talking abt integers.. so X can be Non Integer as well.. that the whole catch to solve the question...

Statement 1. x^3(1-x^2) <0

here can be either postive or negative... in sufficient .

statement 2. x^2 <1

X can either negative or any Non integer positive number less than 1. hence insufficient...


Taking 1 and 2 together ..

x^3(1-x^2) <0 and x^2 <1

if X is an Non interger postive number then first condition will not hold good. thus X has be to negative to hold both the conditions true..

hence C. So let me know if u have any doubts...
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x negativity

by simba12123 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:42 pm
All right. I finally got the issue at hand. I dont know where i messed this up still. I took the statenments at hand and didnt simplify them at all. Further, I just plugged in numbers like you said and came to the conclusion that c.


I do have one more concern: I usually run into this question on DS when dealing with choice C. TO justify choice c, you can simply choose the overlapping answers that are in common in both choices. However, in this case both choices yield pos and neg.

FOr example, in statement 1 I got x = -1/2 and 2
in statement 2 I got x = -1/2 and 1/2

SO, I chose C because we have = -1/2 in both answer choices. I am close yet far.

HOWEVER: I need to figure out my initial mistake. Did I over simplify? THanks for all your help.
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by rohangupta83 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:17 am
imo C

the way I would have done

statement 1:

(x^3)(1-x^2)<0
(x^3)(1-x)(1+x)<0

So,

Either x^3<0 or 1-x<0 or 1+x<0

or

x<0 or 1<x or x<-1

We have 3 different possible values of x so statement 1 is insufficient


statement 2:

(x^2)-1<0
(x-1)(x+1)<0

Either
x-1<0 or x+1<0

or

x<1 or x<-1

statement 2 has 2 answer choices so that's also insufficient.

Now, 1 and 2 together

As we can see that both statements 1 and 2 have a common solution x<-1. Therefore, x must be -ve. Hence, answer choice C is correct.
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Re: x negativity

by yezz » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am
simba12123 wrote:Is X negative?


1. x^3(1-x^2) <0

2. (x^2)-1<0

from 1

x^3-x^5<0

x^3<x^5.......x has the same sign -ve and x is a fraction. OR X IS +VE INTIGER..insuff

from 2
x^2<1

x can be anything +ve or -ve fraction..insuff

both of x is a fraction and x^3<x^5 thus x is -ve ........suff

C
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by schumi_gmat » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:05 pm
From 1,

either x<0 or x^2 >1

hence insuff

from 2,

x^2<1

combining 1 and 2, we know that x^2>1 is not possible and hence x<0

IMO C
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by Stockmoose16 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:35 pm
schumi_gmat wrote:From 1,

either x<0 or x^2 >1

***Schumi, why did you separate the equation in statement #1 into two statements. I don't think you can do that. Statement #1 should give you the following information:

-1<X<0
X>1

If you put the statements you listed above, it says, X=-2 would be sufficient, since it complies with both your statements. Thus, by your breakdown, #1 would actually be sufficient, rather than insufficient.

Consider this example: x^3*X^4>0

You can't just separate these two out, or you'd get

X^3>0 (definitely positive)
X^4>0 (could be + or -)

combine these statements, and it says X is either positive or negative... insufficient. In reality, X is definitely positive, because if you combine the original statements, you get: X^7>0. The only thing that will satisfy the equation is a positive number.
Last edited by Stockmoose16 on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Stockmoose16 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:52 pm
rohangupta83 wrote:imo C

the way I would have done

statement 1:

(x^3)(1-x^2)<0
(x^3)(1-x)(1+x)<0

So,

Either x^3<0 or 1-x<0 or 1+x<0

or

x<0 or 1<x or x<-1

We have 3 different possible values of x so statement 1 is insufficient


*** Why are you separating the two terms in statement #1. I don't think you can do that. Consider this example:

X^3*X^4>0

You can't just separate these two out, or you'd get

X^3>0 (X is definitely positive)
X^4>0 (X could be + or -)

Using your method, you'd say these statements are INSUFFICIENT since X could be + or -. In reality, X is definitely positive, because if you combine the original statements, you get: X^7>0. The only thing that will satisfy the equation is a positive number.
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:32 pm
I received a PM asking me to comment.

Original problem:

Is X negative?

1. x^3(1-x^2) <0
2. (x^2)-1<0

People have tried a couple of different things above. The particular confusion I was asked about was coming up with multiple inequalities or statements from just one starting inequality. What's going on here: people are trying to understand what properties they can deduce from the starting info - so they're actually using number property theory here.

The first thing I notice is that they ask me whether x is negative. So this seems like a pos/neg question. Then statement one tells me that some stuff multiplied together is negative - yep, this is definitely a pos/neg question.

So, let's see. (Note: I'm going to go through this first as though someone doesn't notice that (1-x^2) can be further factored - but I do recommend factoring this; see below for the explanation that includes factoring this term.)

(x^3) * (1-x^2) < 0
Two things multiplied together are negative. So one must be positive and one must be negative, because neg * pos = neg. Also, x^3 does not equal zero and (1-x^2) does not equal zero (because zero times anything is zero, not negative).

x is either negative or positive:
IF x is positive, then x^3 is positive, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be negative. If this is the case, then:
1-x^2 < 0
1 < x^2
1 < x (or x > 1)
IF x is negative, on the other hand, then x^3 is negative, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be positive.
If this is the case, then:
(1-x^2) > 0
1 > x^2
1 > x (or x < 1)

This doesn't tell me enough. Statement 1 is not sufficient.

You can also split the (1-x^2) term as a previous poster did (as I said above, I recommend doing this whenever you see a setup that reflects one of the three common quadratics): (1-x^2) = (1-x)(1+x)

So now you'd have (x^3) * (1-x) * (1+x) < 0
Now we've got three things multiplied together = negative. So either one is negative and the other two are positive, or all three are negative.

if x is positive, then x^3 is positive. 1+x must also be positive. By default, then, 1-x must be the negative term:
1-x < 0
1 < x (or x > 1)

If x is negative, then x^3 is negative. The other two terms could then both be positive, so 1-x > 0 and 1+x > 0. (They could also both be negative - so you could test it that way, if you prefer.)
1-x > 0 --> 1 > x (or x < 1)
1+x > 0 --> x > -1
this allows both neg and pos possibilities, so insufficient.
If you test the "both negative" possibility:
1-x < 0 --> 1 < x (or x > 1)
1+x < 0 --> x < -1
again, this allows both pos and neg possibilities, so insufficient.
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

Stacey Koprince
GMAT Instructor
Director of Online Community
Manhattan GMAT

Contributor to Beat The GMAT!

Learn more about me
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by Stockmoose16 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:48 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to comment.

Original problem:

Is X negative?

1. x^3(1-x^2) <0
2. (x^2)-1<0

x is either negative or positive:
IF x is positive, then x^3 is positive, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be negative. If this is the case, then:
1-x^2 < 0
1 < x^2
1 < x (or x > 1)
***Stacey, can you explain why you're only putting X>1 here? If X^2>1, shouldn't the result be X>1 and X<1?
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by logitech » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:11 pm
Guys,

I hope you will find this method useful. Once you have ineqs find their roots and prepare a chart just like the one I attached. Define negative and positive values and carry on the calculations

For example for this questions

X^3 is + for positive numbers and - for negative numbers

1-X^2 is positive between -1 and + 1 and it is negative for the rest of the numbers

and if you multiply this signs you will find when this equation will be positive or negative.

so in this case, Statement I tells us that this equation can be both positive or negative - INSUF

for the second statement we see that

X^2-1 is negative between -1 and + 1 and positive for the rest of the numbers again - INSUF

but we look at them together you will see that X will be < 0 between -1 and 0 ( exclusive ) and will satisfy both equation.

so it is C as in CATWOMAN

Just wanted to give you guys an alternative method

8)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
LGTCH
---------------------
"DON'T LET ANYONE STEAL YOUR DREAM!"
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by Stockmoose16 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:19 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to comment.

Original problem:

Is X negative?

1. x^3(1-x^2) <0
2. (x^2)-1<0

People have tried a couple of different things above. The particular confusion I was asked about was coming up with multiple inequalities or statements from just one starting inequality. What's going on here: people are trying to understand what properties they can deduce from the starting info - so they're actually using number property theory here.

The first thing I notice is that they ask me whether x is negative. So this seems like a pos/neg question. Then statement one tells me that some stuff multiplied together is negative - yep, this is definitely a pos/neg question.

So, let's see. (Note: I'm going to go through this first as though someone doesn't notice that (1-x^2) can be further factored - but I do recommend factoring this; see below for the explanation that includes factoring this term.)

(x^3) * (1-x^2) < 0
Two things multiplied together are negative. So one must be positive and one must be negative, because neg * pos = neg. Also, x^3 does not equal zero and (1-x^2) does not equal zero (because zero times anything is zero, not negative).

x is either negative or positive:
IF x is positive, then x^3 is positive, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be negative. If this is the case, then:
1-x^2 < 0
1 < x^2
1 < x (or x > 1)
IF x is negative, on the other hand, then x^3 is negative, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be positive.
If this is the case, then:
(1-x^2) > 0
1 > x^2
1 > x (or x < 1)

This doesn't tell me enough. Statement 1 is not sufficient.

You can also split the (1-x^2) term as a previous poster did (as I said above, I recommend doing this whenever you see a setup that reflects one of the three common quadratics): (1-x^2) = (1-x)(1+x)

So now you'd have (x^3) * (1-x) * (1+x) < 0
Now we've got three things multiplied together = negative. So either one is negative and the other two are positive, or all three are negative.

if x is positive, then x^3 is positive. 1+x must also be positive. By default, then, 1-x must be the negative term:
1-x < 0
1 < x (or x > 1)

If x is negative, then x^3 is negative. The other two terms could then both be positive, so 1-x > 0 and 1+x > 0. (They could also both be negative - so you could test it that way, if you prefer.)
1-x > 0 --> 1 > x (or x < 1)
1+x > 0 --> x > -1
this allows both neg and pos possibilities, so insufficient.
If you test the "both negative" possibility:
1-x < 0 --> 1 < x (or x > 1)
1+x < 0 --> x < -1
again, this allows both pos and neg possibilities, so insufficient.
Stacey,

Can you go one more step forward and show how the two statements together are sufficient?
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by Stockmoose16 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:04 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to comment.

Original problem:

Is X negative?

1. x^3(1-x^2) <0
2. (x^2)-1<0

People have tried a couple of different things above. The particular confusion I was asked about was coming up with multiple inequalities or statements from just one starting inequality. What's going on here: people are trying to understand what properties they can deduce from the starting info - so they're actually using number property theory here.

The first thing I notice is that they ask me whether x is negative. So this seems like a pos/neg question. Then statement one tells me that some stuff multiplied together is negative - yep, this is definitely a pos/neg question.

So, let's see. (Note: I'm going to go through this first as though someone doesn't notice that (1-x^2) can be further factored - but I do recommend factoring this; see below for the explanation that includes factoring this term.)

(x^3) * (1-x^2) < 0
Two things multiplied together are negative. So one must be positive and one must be negative, because neg * pos = neg. Also, x^3 does not equal zero and (1-x^2) does not equal zero (because zero times anything is zero, not negative).

x is either negative or positive:
IF x is positive, then x^3 is positive, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be negative. If this is the case, then:
1-x^2 < 0
1 < x^2
1 < x (or x > 1)
IF x is negative, on the other hand, then x^3 is negative, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be positive.
If this is the case, then:
(1-x^2) > 0
1 > x^2
1 > x (or x < 1)

This doesn't tell me enough. Statement 1 is not sufficient.

You can also split the (1-x^2) term as a previous poster did (as I said above, I recommend doing this whenever you see a setup that reflects one of the three common quadratics): (1-x^2) = (1-x)(1+x)

So now you'd have (x^3) * (1-x) * (1+x) < 0
Now we've got three things multiplied together = negative. So either one is negative and the other two are positive, or all three are negative.

if x is positive, then x^3 is positive. 1+x must also be positive. By default, then, 1-x must be the negative term:
1-x < 0
1 < x (or x > 1)

If x is negative, then x^3 is negative. The other two terms could then both be positive, so 1-x > 0 and 1+x > 0. (They could also both be negative - so you could test it that way, if you prefer.)
1-x > 0 --> 1 > x (or x < 1)
1+x > 0 --> x > -1
this allows both neg and pos possibilities, so insufficient.
If you test the "both negative" possibility:
1-x < 0 --> 1 < x (or x > 1)
1+x < 0 --> x < -1
again, this allows both pos and neg possibilities, so insufficient.
If you factorize statement #2, you get:

(X^2)-1
= (X+1)(x-1)

if (X+1) is positive, then (X-1) must be negative:

so: X-1<0
X<1

and

X+1>0

X<-1

However,

If (X+1) is negative, then X-1 must be positive:

so: (X-1)>0
X>1

and

(X+1)<0
X<-1

So from statement 2, I'm getting:

X<-1, X>1, X<1

How does this make any sense? Shouldn't X be the same (either positive or negative) within each trial?
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by Stockmoose16 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:52 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to comment.

Original problem:

Is X negative?

1. x^3(1-x^2) <0
2. (x^2)-1<0

People have tried a couple of different things above. The particular confusion I was asked about was coming up with multiple inequalities or statements from just one starting inequality. What's going on here: people are trying to understand what properties they can deduce from the starting info - so they're actually using number property theory here.

The first thing I notice is that they ask me whether x is negative. So this seems like a pos/neg question. Then statement one tells me that some stuff multiplied together is negative - yep, this is definitely a pos/neg question.

So, let's see. (Note: I'm going to go through this first as though someone doesn't notice that (1-x^2) can be further factored - but I do recommend factoring this; see below for the explanation that includes factoring this term.)

(x^3) * (1-x^2) < 0
Two things multiplied together are negative. So one must be positive and one must be negative, because neg * pos = neg. Also, x^3 does not equal zero and (1-x^2) does not equal zero (because zero times anything is zero, not negative).

x is either negative or positive:
IF x is positive, then x^3 is positive, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be negative. If this is the case, then:
1-x^2 < 0
1 < x^2
1 < x (or x > 1)
IF x is negative, on the other hand, then x^3 is negative, so the other term (1-x^2) would have to be positive.
If this is the case, then:
(1-x^2) > 0
1 > x^2
1 > x (or x < 1)

This doesn't tell me enough. Statement 1 is not sufficient.
Shouldn't your last statement say X<0. If you've already assumed X is negative, then saying X<1 doesn't make sense (because X can't be positive if you're assuming it's negative. So from this statement, you should take away that X<0 or X>1, correct?
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:40 pm
multiple answers to multiple questions.
can you explain why you're only putting X>1 here? If X^2>1, shouldn't the result be X>1 and X<1?
The square root of x^2 is x. The square root of 1 is +/- 1. So x is either >1 or < -1 (not positive one, negative one). But the assumption I made when I started this one was that x is positive, so the x < -1 option is not a valid solution.
Shouldn't your last statement say X<0. If you've already assumed X is negative, then saying X<1 doesn't make sense (because X can't be positive if you're assuming it's negative. So from this statement, you should take away that X<0 or X>1, correct?
Sure! You can definitely take it that next step - that's great! (I just stopped thinking about it because I knew I didn't have sufficient info anyway.)
How does this make any sense? Shouldn't X be the same (either positive or negative) within each trial?
If the info is sufficient, sure. But it's not sufficient. What you've got are two scenarios:
EITHER (x+1) is pos, in which case x < 1, x > -1, which simplifies to -1<x<1 (note: you had an error here - you said x < -1, but it should be x > -1)
OR (x-1) is pos, in which case x > 1 or x < -1

Which is it? Don't know. (And even if we did know that it was one specific scenario, both scenarios leave open pos and neg possibilities.. so insufficient.)
Can you go one more step forward and show how the two statements together are sufficient?
Wow, this has gotten seriously messy. Let's see if we can tidy it up a bit into something that could actually be done in 2 min! From the top (and forgive the dots in the formatting - trying to get things to line up!):

is x < 0? y/n

Statement (1)
............(x^3)(1-x^2) < 0
............(x^3)(1-x)(1+x) < 0
if x=+....(pos)(neg)(pos) < 0

x^3>0, therefore x>0
1-x < 0, therefore x>1
1+x>0, therefore x>-1

We started with the assumption that x is pos, so x>1 (because all of the above statements are still true if x>1). So there's one possibility for statement 1: x is pos.

............(x^3)(1-x^2) < 0
............(x^3)(1-x)(1+x) < 0
if x=-....(neg)(pos)(pos) < 0
(Note: the last term must be pos because we've already got a neg in the mix - the first term.)

x^3 < 0, therefore x < 0
1-x > 0, therefore x < 1
1+x>0, therefore x>-1

We started with the assumption that x is neg, so -1 < x < 0. So here's another possibility: x is neg.

Insufficient. Cross off AD.

Statement (2)
............x^2 - 1 < 0
............(x+1)(x-1) < 0
if x=+...(pos)(neg) < 0

x+1 > 0, therefore x > -1
x-1 < 0, therefore x < 1

We started with the assumption that x is pos, so 0 < x < 1. So if this is the case, then x is pos.

............x^2 - 1 < 0
............(x+1)(x-1) < 0
if x=-....(pos)(neg) < 0

x+1 > 0, therefore x > -1
x-1 < 0, therefore x < 1

We started with the assumption that x is neg, so -1 < x < 0. So if this is the case, then x is neg.

Insufficient. Eliminate B.

Statements (1) and (2)

Now we only include the things that make both statements true.
statement 1 says either x > 1 or -1 < x < 0.
statement 2 says either 0 < x < 1 or -1 < x < 0.

x>1 is not true for statement 2. Eliminate it.
-1 < x < 0 is true for both statements. Keep it.
0 < x < 1 is not true for statement 1. Eliminate it.

The only thing you were allowed to keep says that x is neg. Sufficient. C.
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

Stacey Koprince
GMAT Instructor
Director of Online Community
Manhattan GMAT

Contributor to Beat The GMAT!

Learn more about me
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