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Until recently

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atulmangal Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Until recently

Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:42 pm
Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering in igloos, the ice-block domes that are peculiar to north-central Canada, and in structures made of stones, bones, driftwood, and skins.

A.Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering
B.During recent times, the Inuit people lead a nomadic existence, sheltering.
C.In the times that are recent, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltered.
D.Up until recently, the Inuit people, leading a nomadic existence, have sheltered.
E.Until recent times, leading a nomadic existence, the Inuit people were sheltered.

How to pick b/w Op A and Op D

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atulmangal Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:49 am
sameerballani wrote:
atulmangal wrote:
Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering in igloos, the ice-block domes that are peculiar to north-central Canada, and in structures made of stones, bones, driftwood, and skins.

A.Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering
B.During recent times, the Inuit people lead a nomadic existence, sheltering.
C.In the times that are recent, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltered.
D.Up until recently, the Inuit people, leading a nomadic existence, have sheltered.
E.Until recent times, leading a nomadic existence, the Inuit people were sheltered.

How to pick b/w Op A and Op D
My approach was to first decide between sheltering and sheltered.
On going through the sentence, the intended meaning of author is that: Till recent days, the inuit people led a nomadic existence. HOW? sheltering in.... and in structures ....
So i felt that the use of sheltering is apt in this case

Coming to first part: During recent times and Until recently
they both have different meanings and certainly change the meaning. But thinking about the original sentence meaning UNTIL RECENTLY seems apt.

Please point out if i am wrong anywhere.

I hope this helps

Thanks
Hi,

Quote:
My approach was to first decide between sheltering and sheltered.
On going through the sentence, the intended meaning of author is that: Till recent days, the inuit people led a nomadic existence. HOW? sheltering in.... and in structures ....
So i felt that the use of sheltering is apt in this case
sorry bro, i don't think this makes sense, because u r not selecting b/w participles "sheltering and sheltered" but u are selecting b/w "sheltering and have sheltered".....a participle and verb.

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Frankenstein Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:25 am
atulmangal wrote:
Do you think "up until recently" talks about present??? secondly, is this word "up until recently" redundant??

However, if "up until recently" means
Hi,
As I have mentioned in my post, I am not sure about the usage of "up until recently". I just felt using 'up' is unnecessary, assuming it doesn't change the meaning of "until recently". Looking forward for experts to answer this.

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Frankenstein Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:51 pm
Hi,
We use present perfect if an action starts in the past and continues in the present. 'Until recently' means the action was there till some time back but now it is over. So, we use simple past for this. Hence we eliminate D. I am not too sure about the usage of 'up' in D. May be that is unnecessary too.

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MBACRACKER Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts Default Avatar
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Post Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:57 pm
IMO A

Until recently means the action is completed. We can eliminate D. That leaves us with A.

FYI
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/12/22/nyregion/art-arctic-visions-the-art-of-the-inuit-at-the-montclair-museum.html

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sameerballani Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:26 am
atulmangal wrote:
Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering in igloos, the ice-block domes that are peculiar to north-central Canada, and in structures made of stones, bones, driftwood, and skins.

A.Until recently, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltering
B.During recent times, the Inuit people lead a nomadic existence, sheltering.
C.In the times that are recent, the Inuit people led a nomadic existence, sheltered.
D.Up until recently, the Inuit people, leading a nomadic existence, have sheltered.
E.Until recent times, leading a nomadic existence, the Inuit people were sheltered.

How to pick b/w Op A and Op D
My approach was to first decide between sheltering and sheltered.
On going through the sentence, the intended meaning of author is that: Till recent days, the inuit people led a nomadic existence. HOW? sheltering in.... and in structures ....
So i felt that the use of sheltering is apt in this case

Coming to first part: During recent times and Until recently
they both have different meanings and certainly change the meaning. But thinking about the original sentence meaning UNTIL RECENTLY seems apt.

Please point out if i am wrong anywhere.

I hope this helps

Thanks

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phanideepak Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:00 am
I think A talks about inuit people and that they led a nomadic life only till recently.. But D is talking about the kind of shelters they have used in the recent past.

Change of meaning i think.

Do correct me If i am wrong.

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vikram4689 Legendary Member
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:07 am
D says - Up until recently, Inuit people have sheltered in Ignoos BUT what have they sheltered - i think meaning is not clear. Is anyone else feels so

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sameerballani Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:33 am
vikram4689 wrote:
D says - Up until recently, Inuit people have sheltered in Ignoos BUT what have they sheltered - i think meaning is not clear. Is anyone else feels so
sheltered themselves!!

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atulmangal Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:46 am
Frankenstein wrote:
Hi,
We use present perfect if an action starts in the past and continues in the present. 'Until recently' means the action was there till some time back but now it is over. So, we use simple past for this. Hence we eliminate D. I am not too sure about the usage of 'up' in D. May be that is unnecessary too.
This is a convincing reasoning, totally agree. However, "present perfect" i agree represent action started in past and continues to present but we can't say the action will continue in future as present perfect can also states that the action now is in completed state and from now on the action doesn't continue. for ex:

He has drunk two glasses of lemonade.

He has slept.

I completely agree with you now that since "until recently" means not present maybe for example 15 mins back etc...so present perfect is incorrect. Do you think "up until recently" talks about present??? secondly, is this word "up until recently" redundant??

However, if "up until recently" means

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niksworth Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:56 am
First.
A suggests that until recently, the Inuits led a nomadic existence. It supports this premise through the use of a modifier (sheltering in ...) that adds on to the core of the sentence by further emphasizing how that was so.

D reverses the scenario. It focuses on the detail of sheltering by making it a part of the main clause. nomadic existence is just a byline.

I like the first structure much much better.

Second.
Up in option D is unnecessary, it adds absolutely zero value to the sentence.

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:10 am
sameerballani wrote:
My approach was to first decide between sheltering and sheltered.
if this were a choice between the MODIFIER "sheltering" and the MODIFIER "sheltered", then you could do this -- the former would be active (signifying that they sheltered themselves, and the latter passive (implying that someone/something else sheltered them).

however, that's not it -- it's a choice between "sheltering" (modifier) and "HAVE sheltered" (active-voice verb). these don't have different meanings, other than in the sense that the former doesn't have a tense and the latter does.

Quote:
On going through the sentence, the intended meaning of author is that: Till recent days, the inuit people led a nomadic existence. HOW? sheltering in.... and in structures ....
notice that this is not until NOW -- this is until a time in the recent past. therefore, because this is not happening anymore (and is not directly relevant to some mentioned present situation), you should use the past tense.

therefore, (d) has two problems:
* "up until" is redundant (you wouldn't be expected to pick this out by yourself, but you should notice it in comparison to the more compact "until")
* the present perfect doesn't really make sense; should be the past tense

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