Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow....

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gkumar: 2009 Beat The GMAT Scholarship Winner; Posts: 182; Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:35 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 3 times; GMAT Score:700+

by gkumar » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:28 pm

I was stumped by this one from GMAT Prep. Can someone explain (not just give answer)?

Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies' common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set cash more conservatively than they were.

A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends

OA: I chose B, but the OA is C

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:28 pm

gkumar: 2009 Beat The GMAT Scholarship Winner; Posts: 182; Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:35 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 3 times; GMAT Score:700+

My logic

by gkumar » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:30 pm

My logic was as follows. Please explain my errors:
A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
set is the verb so "to have" is the verb needed to correspond to the elliptical phrase. This effectively rules out D.
B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
I chose this as this choice was more than than C was
C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
"Setting dividends" is not active and is passive.
D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
Same verb error from A is repeated. And I think the idiom is "expect to <verb>" and not "expect that"?
E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends
Same idiom error from D about "expect" is repeated

What is the OE?

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piyush_nitt: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 424; Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:15 pm; Location: Sydney; Thanked: 12 times

by piyush_nitt » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:06 pm

Could not understand the explanation given by you for 1 and 2. Could you please rephrase again?

I feel "More conservatively" is wrong should be "more conservative." that eliminates A and B.

But don't you think they can refer to analysts as well as to automakers?

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amitabhprasad: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 259; Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:30 pm; Thanked: 16 times

by amitabhprasad » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:46 pm

piyush_nitt wrote:Could not understand the explanation given by you for 1 and 2. Could you please rephrase again?

I feel "More conservatively" is wrong should be "more conservative." that eliminates A and B.

But don't you think they can refer to analysts as well as to automakers?

piyush,
Can you say why you think "More conservatively" is wrong.
I have seen few SC question with more/less coupled with adverb

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logitech: Legendary Member; Posts: 2134; Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:26 pmFollowed by: 25 members; Thanked: 237 times; GMAT Score:730

Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow....

by logitech » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:18 pm

Idiom 1) Expect X to do Y - Eliminate D and E
Idiom 2) More conservative THAN not more conservatively THAN ( I might need a little support here but I think I am correct in this ) Eliminate A and B

C remains.

LGTCH
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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:48 pm

a,b,c are wrong because "were" and "have been" are illogic. The illipsis is not logic

E is wrong because we need past tense

D is correct?

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piyush_nitt: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 424; Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:15 pm; Location: Sydney; Thanked: 12 times

by piyush_nitt » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:44 pm

several industry [b]analysts[/b] expect [b]automakers[/b], in order to conserve cash, to set cash more conservatively than [b]they[/b] were

Guys don't you think that "they" can refer to analysts or to automakers?

Can anyone pls let me know the rule behind it?

Thanks!

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vivek.kapoor83: Legendary Member; Posts: 833; Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:56 am; Thanked: 13 times

by vivek.kapoor83 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:44 am

does 'expect' refers to Subjective mood ? they expect that.........wht do u say guys...is it not ? :roll:

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amitabhprasad: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 259; Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:30 pm; Thanked: 16 times

by amitabhprasad » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:35 am

I think the confusion is between "B" and "C" rest all choices are ruled out.

B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
In "B" referent of they can be either "dividends" or "automakers". If you try replacing they either of the choices make sense.

C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends.
By stating dividends explicitly this referent issue is taken care of

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:11 am

a,b are wrong because the "be" can not be ellips here

d,e are wrong because "expect the automaker that..clause" are unidiomatic

C is right

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maihuna: Legendary Member; Posts: 1578; Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:49 amFollowed by: 9 members; Thanked: 82 times; GMAT Score:720

by maihuna » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:37 am

btw, i m surprised no one talked about "what they refers to" analysts or industry's...

Two noticeable points: Words like expect etc requires infinitives to express purpose, so after expect to do xyz or to be xyz is a must, so option D and E is gone.

Out of ABC:

coming back to more conservative vs more cnservatively, later is kind of passive, see the usage below:

This merely reflects the more conservative interpretation of the data.

This interpretation of the data is done more conservatively.

And this is the reason more conservatively is wrong.

A and B is gone and we are left with active voice option C standing in front of us as an credited option

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goelmohit2002: Legendary Member; Posts: 1799; Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:03 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 36 times

by goelmohit2002 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:45 am

if choice "b" would have been

to "be setting" dividends more conservatively than they have been.

Is the above sentence as a standalone option correct ?

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:58 am

amitabhprasad wrote:I think the confusion is between "B" and "C" rest all choices are ruled out.

B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
In "B" referent of they can be either "dividends" or "automakers". If you try replacing they either of the choices make sense.

C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends.
By stating dividends explicitly this referent issue is taken care of

nothing to do with "stating dividends explicitly", since the word "dividends" is also present in choice (b).

the difference is that, in choice (c), "dividends" comes AFTER "they", so it's clearly not the antecedent.

--

still:

be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about eliminating choices with "ambiguous pronouns".

there are plenty of official problems whose correct answers contain "ambiguous" pronouns. for two examples, see #19 in the purple OG verbal supplement and #6 in the 12th edition OG.

of course, those two problems contain genuinely ambiguous pronouns in ALL of their answer choices. i don't think the gmat would make you pick a correct answer containing an ambiguous pronoun over an incorrect answer with a non-ambiguous pronoun, but i suppose you never know.

takeaway:
always use pronoun ambiguity AFTER all other grammatical concerns.

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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On peut poser des questions Ã Ron en franÃ§ais
Voit esittÃ¤Ã¤ kysymyksiÃ¤ Ron:lle myÃ¶s suomeksi

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tom4lax: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 175; Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:57 pm; Thanked: 4 times

by tom4lax » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:39 pm

So just as a follow-up here, the reason answer B is incorrect is because of the usage of "conservatively"?

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:10 am

tom4lax wrote:So just as a follow-up here, the reason answer B is incorrect is because of the usage of "conservatively"?

nope. "conservatively" is fine. that's an adverb, and it's being used as an adverb. no problem there at all.

in choice (c), "conservative" is used as an adverb, as it should be. again, all is well.

--

the real problem with choice (b) is the lack of parallelism. you have "they have been", but there's no form of TO BE to which it can be parallel. (contrast this with choice (c), in which there is such a form of "to be" that anchors the parallelism.)

the gmat would not eliminate something like (b) solely on the basis of "ambiguous pronoun".
there are plenty of official problems in which a certain degree of pronoun ambiguity is tolerated (see, for instance, #19 in the OG verbal supplement), so pronoun ambiguity problems should be strictly a last resort (i.e., if all other elimination methods fail).

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