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Tough Assumption CR

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by Musicolo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:56 am
I have no idea why you guys are dwelling over this question when it is more then clear that A is indeed the correct one.
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by Ian Stewart » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:23 pm
Musicolo wrote:I have no idea why you guys are dwelling over this question when it is more then clear that A is indeed the correct one.
Well, that's the reason. Many people seem to think the answer is A here, which is why I spent some time explaining why that's not the correct answer.
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by Musicolo » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:02 am
Ian Stewart wrote:
Musicolo wrote:I have no idea why you guys are dwelling over this question when it is more then clear that A is indeed the correct one.
Well, that's the reason. Many people seem to think the answer is A here, which is why I spent some time explaining why that's not the correct answer.
OK. However, if the book says its A then its A.
I found that many CR questions absolutely don't make sense, but do I have a right to raise that issue in GMAT test? NO!
So I'll stick with the one GMAT rules imply and not with the one that makes common sense. GMAT overall makes little practical sense anyway. Ask any business manages and they'll tell you the same.
GMAT is money making industry and that is it my friends.
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by Ian Stewart » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:18 am
Musicolo wrote:
Ian Stewart wrote:
Musicolo wrote:I have no idea why you guys are dwelling over this question when it is more then clear that A is indeed the correct one.
Well, that's the reason. Many people seem to think the answer is A here, which is why I spent some time explaining why that's not the correct answer.
OK. However, if the book says its A then its A.
I found that many CR questions absolutely don't make sense, but do I have a right to raise that issue in GMAT test? NO!
So I'll stick with the one GMAT rules imply and not with the one that makes common sense. GMAT overall makes little practical sense anyway. Ask any business manages and they'll tell you the same.
GMAT is money making industry and that is it my friends.
A few points:

-no book said the OA was A to this question; the answer came from another forum, as I understand. Unless the answer is from a reputable source, you should always treat it with a degree of skepticism - I can't count the number of incorrect "OAs" I've seen on forums, whether because of typos, problems with the original source, etc;

-the answers to all real GMAT CR questions should make perfect sense if you understand the logic of the problem. That will not always be true of questions from test prep companies, so you should choose your resources wisely;

-no one claims the GMAT tests real world business skills. The purpose of the GMAT is to test your likelihood of success in an MBA program. Business schools want to be sure you can handle the academic rigors of their program, and research studies have demonstrated that GMAT scores are a much better predictor of this than, say, undergraduate grades;

-GMAC is a non-profit. The money you pay to take the test is largely spent on research and development. There is a money making industry around the test, that all of the test prep companies and publishers are a part of, but making a profit is not the purpose of the test itself.
For online GMAT math tutoring, or to buy my higher-level Quant books and problem sets, contact me at ianstewartgmat at gmail.com

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Tough Critical reasong

by narendran » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:45 am
Let us look at them this way. Let us negate Choice A and C now by dropping the double negatives and converting to positives


A. Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is unlikely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.

Being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.

Well this fits smugly becos this gives an explanation for the author’s assumption that the Guv is wrong

Now Let us negate C


C. The group of inmates who chose to take college-level courses were not already less likely than other inmates to commit crimes after being released.

The group of inmates who chose to take college-level courses was already as likely or more likely than other inmates to commit crimes after being released. –

This means they will continue to commit crimes whether college study or not and if so, How can it be the author’s assumption to dispute Guv’s action. C in fact supports Guv. I am afraid C is not an assumption..
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Re: Tough Assumption CR

by dtweah » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:28 am
cramya wrote:Newspaper editorial:
In an attempt to reduce the crime rate, the governor is getting tough on criminals and making prison conditions harsher. Part of this effort has been to deny inmates the access they formerly had to college-level courses. However, this action is clearly counter to the governor’s ultimate goal, since after being released form prison, inmates who had taken such courses committed far fewer crimes overall than other inmates.
Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A. Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is unlikely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.
B. Former inmates are no more likely to commit crimes than are members of the general population.
C. The group of inmates who chose to take college-level courses were not already less likely than other inmates to commit crimes after being released.
D. Taking high school level courses in prison has less effect on an inmate’s subsequent behavior than taking college-level courses does.
E. The governor’s ultimate goal actually is to gain popularity by convincing people that something effective is being done about crime.

OA: A

The debate is between A and C


Stuart/Ian or Verbal experts on this forum please shed some light on this(point out the conclusion and why a certain answers choice is the best assumption)


I feel the conclusion is the action to stop inmates from taking college courses to reduce crime acts as acounter to stopping the crime.

If we negate C then the argument falls apart. If the inmates who took college courses and did less crime than others were less likely to have commited the crime in the first place then the action taken by the governor to deny inmates the access they formerly had to college-level courses does not counter his ultimate goal.

A is not even close to C.

The key point of the argument is that denial of access counters the governor's goal of inmates not committing crime after their release. More college courses, less crime after release, goal achieved. Reduced access may work against this correlation.

The assumption must link activities/actions in prison and actions/activities after prison, since the goal is only relevant after prison.

First, A undermines the conclusion the argument draws so cannot be a close candidate for an assumption on which the argument depends. Paraphrase of A: Reduced Access to c-level course in prison will not stop people from committing crime that THEY WOULD HAVE COMMITTED EVEN IF THEY TOOK A C LEVEL COURSE.

Argument summary: Reduced Access to C-Level course may lead to released prisoners commiting crime. No or Reduced A can cause B

Answer A Summary: Access to C-Level course does not affect crime
If A or Increased A, B can still take place.

The two are rivals, making A easy to eliminate.

Second, the answer must link prison activites (c course) with goal oriented activities, reduced crime rate, after release from prison. A does not do this. Even while reversing the governor's goal, It is not clear in A whether "the crime they would have committed even if they took a c level course" would occur after their release from prison. We can not infer this timing while deriving the main inference of the question.

These two make A not a close candidate.
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by graem83d » Sun May 15, 2016 3:16 am
I believe the correct answer should be C
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by Nina1987 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:16 am
GMATGuruNY /Marty :

There seems to be a lot confusion around this question. Can you put an end to the confusion by commenting on- the logic of A & C, authenticity of this question based on your experience? Thanks
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by regor60 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:18 am
----
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by Phoenix7 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:02 am
No doubt this would be a 750-800 level question on the GMAT. Before I attempt to explain why A is indeed the "correct" option, I have to admit that I chose C as the correct option. It seems that both A and C are assumptions in the argument. So the question perhaps is not which is the correct option but rather which is better. If we negate C, that is, The group of inmates who chose to take college-level courses were already less likely than other inmates to commit crimes after being released (implies that the education doesn't necessarily reform the inmates), it seems that the argument would fall apart but it won't because there is another assumption behind the argument - that the denial of the access to such an education won't itself act as a deterrent in reducing the tendency to commit crime, which is basically option A. Now if we negate option A, that is, Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed, the argument completely falls apart. Of course, the situation is highly nuanced and so is the choice between the two most likely correct options, A and C. IMHO, only someone with an absolutely clear mind could have cracked this. Does anyone know the source of this question?
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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:57 am
Conclusion: The governor's action (denying inmates access to college level courses) is counter to the governor's goal (reducing the crime rate).

A: Not being able to take college-level courses is unlikely to deter crime.
This answer choice merely RESTATES the conclusion (that denying criminals access to college-level courses is counter to the goal of reducing crime).
Since A is not an assumption but a restatement of the conclusion, eliminate A.
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by evs.teja » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:48 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:Conclusion: The governor's action (denying inmates access to college level courses) is counter to the governor's goal (reducing the crime rate).

A: Not being able to take college-level courses is unlikely to deter crime.
This answer choice merely RESTATES the conclusion (that denying criminals access to college-level courses is counter to the goal of reducing crime).
Since A is not an assumption but a restatement of the conclusion, eliminate A.
Dear Guru,

Will you please clear this doubt of mine ?

Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is unlikely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.

My understanding: If I am not letting a prisoner go to college then the probability of him discouraging (deterring) crime is very low.
This is supporting the editor's view.

Now on negating it
Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.
My understanding: If I am not letting a prisoner go to college then the probability of him discouraging (deterring) crime is very high.
Here Editor's view is falling apart.
So I eliminated option A

But while browsing through comments I found that there can be one more possible negation

Being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.

My understanding: If I am letting a prisoner go to college then the probability of him discouraging (deterring) crime is very high.
This is also somewhat supporting the editor's view.

Now , after going through your explanation I am in a dilemma as to whether my understanding is correct.
No matter whichever negation I follow am not a getting a thorough response w.r.t. the question.

My question is which of the following negation mentioned is correct way of negating a particular option ?

Regards
Teja
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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:56 am
evs.teja wrote:My question is which of the following negation mentioned is correct way of negating a particular option ?

A: Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is unlikely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.
Here, a proper negation is yielded by replacing is unlikely with is likely:
Not being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.
This negation is a restatement of the governor's conclusion that to deny inmates access to college-level courses will reduce the crime rate.
Eliminate any answer choice that, when negated, restates a conclusion in the argument.
The reason:
An assumption = something that IS NOT STATED in the argument but IS ASSUMED to be true.
Eliminate A.
But while browsing through comments I found that there can be one more possible negation

Being able to take college-level courses while in prison is likely to deter anyone from a crime that he or she might otherwise have committed.
This negation is invalid.
A proper negation is yielded by replacing is unlikely with is likely.
The reversal of any other words in A is unwarranted.
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by gocoder » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:55 am
With double negative, A seems difficult to understand, as seen on many Gmat questions. Does A imply this: if a prisoner has not taken any college course while in prison, that will not help to stop crime. Correct me if I'm wrong
In general, any suggestion/additional resources for getting used to such double negatives clauses.
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