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the wicked "which"

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the wicked "which"

by gmatrant » Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:54 am
"which" can modify the immediate noun or the 'noun+prepositional phrase' . Can the same concept be applied to any other phrase before "which" especially an adverbial phrase.

example
Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, a technique called proton-induced x-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine, archaeology, and criminology.

Here which refers to technique or proton-induced x-ray emission.
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by HSPA » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:31 am
which is refering to technique
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by studentps2011 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:32 am
From Papgust's Flash Card:

"Which" is used as a relative pronoun ONLY to refer to the NOUN immediately preceding it.

In other words, "Which", by default, refers to the noun that is closest to the left of the comma.

WHAT TO DO if "Which" seems to refer to the action of the preceding clause??

Do one of the following,
(i) Link "which" properly to an antecedent NOUN.
(ii) Rework the sentence to avoid its use entirely.

-----------

1. Modifer (COMMA + ABSTRACT NOUN) can be used to refer back to the whole idea of the preceding clause.

E.g: "Recent studies have shown that X is 60 percent of Y, a finding that shocked many." -- "Finding" is an ABSTRACT noun that refers back to the idea of the preceding clause. "Which" is INAPPROPRIATE here because it will directly modify only Y.
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by mankey » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:15 am
I think, which refers to the "proton-induced x-ray emission" but since this is same as the technique (being its name), refers indirectly to the technique only.

Some expert please clarify this.

Thanks.
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by gmatrant » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:42 pm
Been getting conflicting answers :(
Can some expert please comment.
A kudos or thanks would do great if my answer has helped you :)
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by mankey » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:51 am
Some expert please help on this one.

Thanks.
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by saketk » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:21 am
I think understanding the meaning of the sentence is far far better than mugging up 1000's n 1000's of rules.

Read this sentence --

My car, which I bought in 2008, gives a superb mileage. -- Which here is referring back to Car.

[Well, looking at the sky rocketing oil prices I would not really mind driving this car. :D ]

The picture of my brother, which is in my pocket, is the sweetest memory I've of my childhood. -- Can you really say that 'which' here is referring to 'my brother'?. Well, logically and grammatically this sentence is correct. [My brother is 6'2 and so, he really can't fit in my pocket ;) ]
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by GMATGuruNY » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pm
gmatrant wrote:"which" can modify the immediate noun or the 'noun+prepositional phrase' . Can the same concept be applied to any other phrase before "which" especially an adverbial phrase.

example
Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, a technique called proton-induced x-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine, archaeology, and criminology.

Here which refers to technique or proton-induced x-ray emission.
Proton-induced x-ray emission is what the technique is CALLED.
It is the technique itself -- not the NAME of the technique -- that can quickly analyze the chemical elements.
Thus, which is standing in for TECHNIQUE.

Context matters. Although which usually refers to the noun that immediately precedes it, the verb here -- CAN ANALYZE -- makes it clear that which refers not to the noun contained in the modifying phrase (emission) but to the noun that PRECEDES the modifying phrase (technique).
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by essaysnark » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:02 pm
saketk, love what you say here:
saketk wrote:I think understanding the meaning of the sentence is far far better than mugging up 1000's n 1000's of rules.
But please be careful of the examples you toss out -- this sentence is grammatically flawed!
saketk wrote: Read this sentence --

My car, which I bought in 2008, gives a superb mileage.
Two problems here:

- A car does not "give" mileage. Common usage is that cars get good mileage.
- "a mileage" would never be used

A better example would be something like:

My car, which I bought in 2008, gets superb mileage.

We get nervous when we see examples used here that are not perfect - so many people use these forums to figure out "the rules" and so we wanted to jump in on this!

And now, back to the "wicked which" conversation...! :-)

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by saketk » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:02 am
essaysnark wrote:
saketk, love what you say here:
But please be careful of the examples you toss out -- this sentence is grammatically flawed!

Two problems here:

- A car does not "give" mileage. Common usage is that cars get good mileage.
- "a mileage" would never be used

A better example would be something like:

My car, which I bought in 2008, gets superb mileage.

EssaySnark
Thanks Essaysnark -- that was really a silly mistake from my side. May be because of the regional influence. I knew that thing in the back of my mind but somehow made mistake. My bad :(

Sometimes our sub-conscious mind makes us commit such mistakes. There are many such examples [with regional influence]-

For example -- I GAVE my GMAT yesterday . This sentence is purely wrong from a students perspective. We cannot give the test. We take the test. it's the GMAC giving the test to us. ;).

I will keep this in mind. Also, it's good to know that you agree with the 'meaning' part I was trying to say. It is nearly impossible to learn every rule of English Grammar. From my experience - Generally, there are almost 2 exceptions to 1 rule. Unlike Math or Physics rules the english grammar rules are not that rigid.

@GMATGuruNY: - Thanks a lot, Mitch!. As always, your posts are really helpful.
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by iongmat » Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:43 am
gmatrant wrote: example
Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, a technique called proton-induced x-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine, archaeology, and criminology.

Here which refers to technique or proton-induced x-ray emission.
How does it matter in this question whether "which" is referring to "technique" or "proton-induced x-ray emission"? How would your answer choice change, based upon what you think "which" is referring to?

It really is a moot point in this question. And the reason this is important, is because you MUST have the wisdom to look at things that "really" matter, while selecting an answer choice.
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by mankey » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:50 am
Dear Mitch

Is my reasoning correct with regard to this question:
I think, which refers to the "proton-induced x-ray emission" but since this is same as the technique (being its name), refers indirectly to the technique only.
Please let me know.

Thanks.
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by Mo2men » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:23 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
gmatrant wrote:"which" can modify the immediate noun or the 'noun+prepositional phrase' . Can the same concept be applied to any other phrase before "which" especially an adverbial phrase.

example
Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, a technique called proton-induced x-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine, archaeology, and criminology.

Here which refers to technique or proton-induced x-ray emission.
Proton-induced x-ray emission is what the technique is CALLED.
It is the technique itself -- not the NAME of the technique -- that can quickly analyze the chemical elements.
Thus, which is standing in for TECHNIQUE.

Context matters. Although which usually refers to the noun that immediately precedes it, the verb here -- CAN ANALYZE -- makes it clear that which refers not to the noun contained in the modifying phrase (emission) but to the noun that PRECEDES the modifying phrase (technique).
Hi Mitch,

Why choice B is wrong?? What does modifier 'having the ability...' really modify?


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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:05 am
Mo2men wrote:Hi Mitch,

Why choice B is wrong??
B: Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, having the ability to analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, a technique called proton-induced X-ray emission, is finding uses in medicine, archeology, and criminology.

The structure of the red portion is as follows:
VERBed MODIFIER + COMMA + VERBing MODIFIER.
This structure is not viable.
A VERBed modifier and a VERBing modifier cannot be connected by a comma.
Eliminate B.
What does modifier 'having the ability...' really modify?
Generally, an introductory VERBing modifier serves to refer to the SUBJECT OF THE FOLLOWING CLAUSE, conveying an action that happens at the SAME TIME as the MAIN VERB.

B: Originally developed for detecting air pollutants, having the ability to analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, a technique called proton-induced X-ray emission, is finding uses in medicine, archeology, and criminology.

Here, having the ability seems to refer to a technique proton-induced x-ray emission (the subject of the following clause).
Conveyed meaning:
Proton-induced x-ray emission is HAVING THE ABILITY to analyze chemical elements at the same time as it IS FINDING uses.
This wording implies that having the ability is a TEMPORARY ACTION -- one that occurs only when proton-induced x-ray emission IS FINDING.
Not the intended meaning.

The ability to analyze chemical elements is not something temporary.
Rather, it is a GENERAL TRUTH about proton-reduced x-ray emission.
To convey a general truth, we use the SIMPLE PRESENT TENSE, as in the OA:
A technique called proton-induced x-ray emission, which can quickly analyze the chemical elements in almost any substance without destroying it, is finding uses in medicine, archaeology, and criminology.
Here, the usage of can quickly analyze (present) serves to convey a general truth about proton-induced x-ray emission:
It CAN QUICKLY ANALYZE the chemical elements in any substance.
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