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The steel industry has changed radically over the last

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aspirant2011 Legendary Member Default Avatar
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The steel industry has changed radically over the last

Post Tue May 31, 2011 8:08 am
The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

A. as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel
B. as large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
C. with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
D. while large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that
E. and large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel

OA: Will be posted later. Please discuss each answer choice in detail

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Post Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:41 pm
[quote="a_new_start"]
David@VeritasPrep wrote:
Can you please explain what is wrong with 'with' in choice C
A clause has both a subject and a verb.
A preposition such as with cannot be followed by a clause.
C: with large, integrated companies...have greatly downsized
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).
Eliminate C.

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a_new_start Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Default Avatar
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Post Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:19 pm
David@VeritasPrep wrote:
You have to deal with complex sentences like this one by doing what we call at Veritas "slash and burn" or I sometimes call "eliminate the clutter."

Here is the original sentence.

Quote:
"The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether."
Here is the sentence with the modifiers and prepositions highlighted.

"The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether."

Now read the sentence without the portions in red - it is simpler and cleaner. Now in this case you have to use part of the modifiers in red to make a decision but in most cases the modifiers can get out of your way.

So maybe it is a big convoluted but not bad.
David

Thanks a lot for your never ending support.

Can you please explain what is wrong with 'with' in choice C

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Frankenstein Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Tue May 31, 2011 8:25 am
Hi,
IMO B
relative pronoun that is essential. So, A,E are out
'as' is essential to convey the meaning of how the industry has radically changed.
So, C,D are out because they change the meaning.

Cheers!

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aspirant2011 Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Tue May 31, 2011 8:31 am
Frankenstein wrote:
Hi,
IMO B
relative pronoun that is essential. So, A,E are out
'as' is essential to convey the meaning of how the industry has radically changed.
So, C,D are out because they change the meaning.

Cheers!
I agree with you that we require "that" but don't you feel the comma structure is awkward in option B because I feel that there shouldn't be any comma between integrated companiesand such as Bethlehem Steel

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MBACRACKER Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts Default Avatar
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Post Tue May 31, 2011 8:34 am
Frankenstein wrote:
Hi,
IMO B
relative pronoun that is essential. So, A,E are out
'as' is essential to convey the meaning of how the industry has radically changed.
So, C,D are out because they change the meaning.

Cheers!
U are correct. Answer is B.

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Frankenstein Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Tue May 31, 2011 8:55 am
aspirant2011 wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:
Hi,
IMO B
relative pronoun that is essential. So, A,E are out
'as' is essential to convey the meaning of how the industry has radically changed.
So, C,D are out because they change the meaning.

Cheers!
I agree with you that we require "that" but don't you feel the comma structure is awkward in option B because I feel that there shouldn't be any comma between integrated companiesand such as Bethlehem Steel
Hi,
I think those commas are essential because the clause is modifying companies. Even if u neglect this point, relative pronoun and meaning of sentence should make it better answer.

Cheers!

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aftableo2006 Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
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Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:50 am
the answer is B

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Post Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:40 pm
Got a PM on this one:

I would just echo what Frankenstein has said. I am not a big "comma" guy. On really important papers I always get someone to check on my commas for me...nevertheless I get GMAT SC right.

Commas are only there to help you on sentence correction not to be a burden. If the comma can guide you then take the hint. But here B, C, AND D all have the comma in the same place - since A and E are out with the relative clause missing you have NO CHOICE on the comma.

This sentence may be painful to you to choose B, but remember the correct answer is not necessarily a sentence you would have written - just the best of the 5!

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aspirant2011 Legendary Member Default Avatar
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Post Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:44 am
David@VeritasPrep wrote:
Got a PM on this one:

I would just echo what Frankenstein has said. I am not a big "comma" guy. On really important papers I always get someone to check on my commas for me...nevertheless I get GMAT SC right.

Commas are only there to help you on sentence correction not to be a burden. If the comma can guide you then take the hint. But here B, C, AND D all have the comma in the same place - since A and E are out with the relative clause missing you have NO CHOICE on the comma.

This sentence may be painful to you to choose B, but remember the correct answer is not necessarily a sentence you would have written - just the best of the 5!
thanks a lot david for your response Smile.........according to you,could such a confusing question prompt on main GMAT?????????

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Post Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:46 pm
You have to deal with complex sentences like this one by doing what we call at Veritas "slash and burn" or I sometimes call "eliminate the clutter."

Here is the original sentence.

Quote:
"The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether."
Here is the sentence with the modifiers and prepositions highlighted.

"The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether."

Now read the sentence without the portions in red - it is simpler and cleaner. Now in this case you have to use part of the modifiers in red to make a decision but in most cases the modifiers can get out of your way.

So maybe it is a big convoluted but not bad.

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a_new_start Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts Default Avatar
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Post Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:57 pm
[quote="GMATGuruNY"]
a_new_start wrote:
David@VeritasPrep wrote:
Can you please explain what is wrong with 'with' in choice C
A clause has both a subject and a verb.
A preposition such as with cannot be followed by a clause.
C: with large, integrated companies...have greatly downsized
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).
Eliminate C.
Thank You Mitch. Point taken.

The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, as large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.


Option C) The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies, such as Bethlehem Steel, that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized, or in some cases shut down altogether.

What I know is "comma + with" construction works as an adverbial modifier modifying the action of the previous clause.
The verb in the previous clause is "has changed". If I check the usage of 'with' this way, is it correct ?

Can I say the steel industry has changed with companies such as BS that once conducted (blah blah...)

Would like to hear from you.

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Post Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:31 am
[quote="GMATGuruNY"]
a_new_start wrote:
David@VeritasPrep wrote:
Can you please explain what is wrong with 'with' in choice C
A clause has both a subject and a verb.
A preposition such as with cannot be followed by a clause.
C: with large, integrated companies...have greatly downsized
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).
Eliminate C.
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).


Please explain this in detail as I am confused.

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Post Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:23 am
richachampion wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote:
A clause has both a subject and a verb.
A preposition such as with cannot be followed by a clause.
C: with large, integrated companies...have greatly downsized
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).
Eliminate C.
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).


Please explain this in detail as I am confused.
C: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel, that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized.
The two colored portions above function as modifiers.
If we omit these modifiers, we get:
The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies have greatly downsized.
Here, the portion in red constitutes a clause, since it contains both a subject (large, integrated companies) and a verb (have greatly downsized).
As mentioned in my post above, a preposition such as with cannot serve to introduce a clause.
Eliminate C.

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richachampion Legendary Member
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Post Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:06 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
richachampion wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote:
A clause has both a subject and a verb.
A preposition such as with cannot be followed by a clause.
C: with large, integrated companies...have greatly downsized
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).
Eliminate C.
Here, with is incorrectly followed by a clause (large, integrated companies have greatly downsized).


Please explain this in detail as I am confused.
C: The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies such as Bethlehem Steel, that once conducted operations from mining at one end of the process to shipping at the other have greatly downsized.
The two colored portions above function as modifiers.
If we omit these modifiers, we get:
The steel industry has changed radically over the last two decades, with large, integrated companies have greatly downsized.
Here, the portion in red constitutes a clause, since it contains both a subject (large, integrated companies) and a verb (have greatly downsized).
As mentioned in my post above, a preposition such as with cannot serve to introduce a clause.
Eliminate C.
Thanks, I have taken a note of this.

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