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Why the opening modifier act in two different ways

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Why the opening modifier act in two different ways

by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:41 am
Hi All,

In the below Q#23 of OG-12, as per OG opening modifier does not modify the "the weight"....i.e. the subject of the next clause.

OG-12, Q12
===============================================
In a previous design, the weight of the discus used in track competition is concentrated in a metal center, but now it is lined with lead around the perimeter, thereby improving stability in flight and resulting in longer throws.
================================================

But the following first sentence from Modifier chapter of Manhattan SC guide say that the opening modifier modify the Charles i.e. the subject of the next clause.

Manhattan Modifier Chapter Example
==============================================
Tired out from playing football, Charles decided to take a nap.
==============================================

Can someone please tell why the opening modifier is behaving in different ways in the two sentences...i.e. in one sentence it modifies the subject of the clause and in it does not modify the same.

Thanks
Mohit
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by scoobydooby » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:53 am
in the first sentence, the opening modifier modifies the subject- "the weight of the discus".

but here, the intended subject must be the "discus' and not "its weight" as the weight cannot be lined with lead.
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:03 am
Hi Scooby,

Thanks. But if you will read the explanation of OG.....then OG does not kick out the option because of wrong modifier....it kicks out due to wrong pronoun reference....i.e. "it" (subject of second clause) cannot refer to "weight"....

I am really confused...can you please help...why OG does not kick out based on wrong modifier.....

In fact the other options of this OG question contain similar issues....but in none OG kicks out due to wrong modifier.

Thanks
Mohit
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by scoobydooby » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:14 am
what i meant is "the weight of the discus" cannot be the logical subject in the sentence
the pronoun "it" refers to the subject: "weight", but it makes no sense here as weight cannot be lined with lead.
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:17 am
scoobydooby wrote:what i meant is "the weight of the discus" cannot be the logical subject in the sentence
the pronoun "it" refers to the subject: "weight", but it makes no sense here as weight cannot be lined with lead.
Thanks Scooby,

Just one small query....can "In a previous design"...modify weight ?
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by scoobydooby » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:27 am
yes i guess it can modify "the weight". we could say for eg, in the current/previous design, the weight of x was allowed to exceed y gms.
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by lunarpower » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:12 am
goelmohit2002 wrote:Hi Scooby,

Thanks. But if you will read the explanation of OG.....then OG does not kick out the option because of wrong modifier....it kicks out due to wrong pronoun reference....i.e. "it" (subject of second clause) cannot refer to "weight"....

I am really confused...can you please help...why OG does not kick out based on wrong modifier.....

In fact the other options of this OG question contain similar issues....but in none OG kicks out due to wrong modifier.

Thanks
Mohit
you're trying to overextend the rule: the "initial modifier modifiers the following noun" rule doesn't apply to prepositional phrases.

it DOES apply to:

* PARTICIPLES (like the one you posted with "tired" = participle modifying "charles")

* NOUNS / APPOSITIVES ("A bank officer, Jim makes a lot of money")

but
it DOESN'T apply to prepositional phrases.
there is nothing wrong with "in 1994, i graduated from high school", for instance.
these prepositional phrases modify the whole following clause.
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:42 am
lunarpower wrote:
you're trying to overextend the rule: the "initial modifier modifiers the following noun" rule doesn't apply to prepositional phrases.

it DOES apply to:

* PARTICIPLES (like the one you posted with "tired" = participle modifying "charles")

* NOUNS / APPOSITIVES ("A bank officer, Jim makes a lot of money")

but
it DOESN'T apply to prepositional phrases.
there is nothing wrong with "in 1994, i graduated from high school", for instance.
these prepositional phrases modify the whole following clause.
Thanks a lot Ron !!!

This really helps....

Just one doubt....can you please tell how to distinguish between opening noun/partciple and prepositional phrase....

I can identify comma + participle after the clause
similarly comma + appositive after the clause
also comma + preposition after the clause

Does the beginning of opening modifier tell what is the role of the opening modifier in the sentence....i.e.
a) if it begins with say "in" then it is prepositional modifier.
b) if it begins with say "ing" form then it is participle modifier ?

Thanks
Mohit
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:32 am
lunarpower wrote: you're trying to overextend the rule: the "initial modifier modifiers the following noun" rule doesn't apply to prepositional phrases.

it DOES apply to:

* PARTICIPLES (like the one you posted with "tired" = participle modifying "charles")

* NOUNS / APPOSITIVES ("A bank officer, Jim makes a lot of money")

but
it DOESN'T apply to prepositional phrases.
there is nothing wrong with "in 1994, i graduated from high school", for instance.
these prepositional phrases modify the whole following clause.
Hi Ron,

In the following question which is an OG-11 question OA = D....

https://www.beatthegmat.com/to-josephine ... t9860.html

Can you please tell what role does "long before....."..... modifier play here....is it

a) appositive modifier
b) or participle modifier
c) or prepositional modifier

Basically how to identify if it is prepositional modifier....

and if it is appositive modifier...then how can..."long before...." modify Josephine Baker ?
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by scoobydooby » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:11 am
guess it is an adverbial modifier, it throws light on when/how long ago J. Baker made paris her home -
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:01 am
scoobydooby wrote:guess it is an adverbial modifier, it throws light on when/how long ago J. Baker made paris her home -
Hi Scooby,

Thanks. Can you please tell how to find out whether the same is adverbial modifier...why not "noun" or "prepositional modifier"...

I guess this is a pretty important concept that is tested quite commonly in GMAT....

Understanding about this concept will really help us.
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by kyabe » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:05 am
goelmohit2002 wrote:
scoobydooby wrote:guess it is an adverbial modifier, it throws light on when/how long ago J. Baker made paris her home -
Hi Scooby,

Thanks. Can you please tell how to find out whether the same is adverbial modifier...why not "noun" or "prepositional modifier"...

I guess this is a pretty important concept that is tested quite commonly in GMAT....

Understanding about this concept will really help us.
When a modifier is modifying an action of the statement ie modifying the verb it is an adverbial modifier. And as other modifiers this is not required to be near the word/statement it is moodifying..
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by goelmohit2002 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:20 am
lunarpower wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:Hi Scooby,

Thanks. But if you will read the explanation of OG.....then OG does not kick out the option because of wrong modifier....it kicks out due to wrong pronoun reference....i.e. "it" (subject of second clause) cannot refer to "weight"....

I am really confused...can you please help...why OG does not kick out based on wrong modifier.....

In fact the other options of this OG question contain similar issues....but in none OG kicks out due to wrong modifier.

Thanks
Mohit
you're trying to overextend the rule: the "initial modifier modifiers the following noun" rule doesn't apply to prepositional phrases.

it DOES apply to:

* PARTICIPLES (like the one you posted with "tired" = participle modifying "charles")

* NOUNS / APPOSITIVES ("A bank officer, Jim makes a lot of money")

but
it DOESN'T apply to prepositional phrases.
there is nothing wrong with "in 1994, i graduated from high school", for instance.
these prepositional phrases modify the whole following clause.
Hi Ron,

Can you please tell in the below question (Official Guide-10, Q19)....why the opening modifier(which i guess is prepositional modifier) should modify the starting noun( i.e. rice)....Official Guide kicks out A, C and E because underlined portion starts with protein instead of rice.

Kindly tell what I am missing here ?

================================================== =
In addition to having more protein than wheat does, the protein in rice is higher quality than that in wheat, with more of the amino acids essential to
the human diet.

A) the protein in rice is higher quality than that in wheat
B) rice has protein of higher quality than that in wheat
C) the protein in rice is higher in quality than it is in wheat
D) rice protein is higher in quality than it is in wheat
E) rice has a protein higher in quality than wheat

Here OA = B.
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by scoobydooby » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:22 am
"In addition to having more... " is not a prepostional modifier. i guess it is an adverbial modifier, modifier the entire action of the next clause- "rice has more protein...".
protein cannot be the subject of the next clause- as proteins cannot have proteins. D & E are unidiomatica and awkward.
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by goelmohit2002 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:49 am
scoobydooby wrote:"In addition to having more... " is not a prepostional modifier. i guess it is an adverbial modifier, modifier the entire action of the next clause- "rice has more protein...".
protein cannot be the subject of the next clause- as proteins cannot have proteins. D & E are unidiomatica and awkward.
Hi Scooby,

Thanks.

Can you please tell how to distinguish between adverbial/ prepositional and noun opening modifiers?

What are the signals for the same ?
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