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Question from GMATprep software: DS : absolute value

Expert replies
Source: — Data Sufficiency |

by eaakbari » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:58 am
IMO B

Do confirm
Last edited by eaakbari on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whether you think you can or can't, you're right.
- Henry Ford
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by eaakbari » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:02 am
(1)
|x-3|>=y
buy y>= 0
hence |x-3|>=0
Insuff

(2)
|x-3| <= -y
but y>=0
therefore -y<=0
Hence |x-3| <= 0
Absolute value cannot be negative Hence x=3

Suff

Answer B
Last edited by eaakbari on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whether you think you can or can't, you're right.
- Henry Ford
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by tpr-becky » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:14 am
statement one simply says the absolute value of x-3 is positive or zero- but we know that already because an absolute value is always positive so that will give no information regarding the value of x.

Statement 2 says that the absolute value of x-3 is less than or equal to either a negative or a zero - an absolute value can never be less than a negative number so tha tmeans that x-3 must equal zero. that means x=3

So IMO the answer is B.
Becky
Master GMAT Instructor
The Princeton Review
Irvine, CA
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by eaakbari » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:17 am
tpr-becky wrote:statement one simply says the absolute value of x-3 is positive or zero- but we know that already because an absolute value is always positive so that will give no information regarding the value of x.

Statement 2 says that the absolute value of x-3 is less than or equal to either a negative or a zero - an absolute value can never be less than a negative number so tha tmeans that x-3 must equal zero. that means x=3

So IMO the answer is B.
Ooh Thanks Becky, I did make a silly mistake. Shall edit my post. Thanks
Whether you think you can or can't, you're right.
- Henry Ford
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by iamseer » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:41 am
Thanks eaakbari and tpr-becky. That was quick and very well explained.
I was thinking on a totally different line :)
"Choose to chance the rapids and dance the tides"
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by iamseer » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:56 am
tpr-becky wrote:statement one simply says the absolute value of x-3 is positive or zero- but we know that already because an absolute value is always positive so that will give no information regarding the value of x.

Statement 2 says that the absolute value of x-3 is less than or equal to either a negative or a zero - an absolute value can never be less than a negative number so tha tmeans that x-3 must equal zero. that means x=3

So IMO the answer is B.
Please if could help me with my line of thinking too....

I was thinking
for 1.
|x-3| >= y therefore x-3>=y (for x>=3) or 3-x>=y (for x<3). i.e x>=y+3 or x<=3-y. Now b'cos y can take any value >=0, x can take more than one values. INSUFFICIENT

for 2.
|x-3| <= -y therefore x-3>=-y (for x>=3) or 3-x>= -y (for x<3). i.e x>=3-y or x<=3+y. Now again b'cos y can take any value >=0, x can take more than one values.

Please correct me where I am going wrong.
Thanks.
"Choose to chance the rapids and dance the tides"
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by eaakbari » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:14 am
iamseer wrote:
tpr-becky wrote:statement one simply says the absolute value of x-3 is positive or zero- but we know that already because an absolute value is always positive so that will give no information regarding the value of x.

Statement 2 says that the absolute value of x-3 is less than or equal to either a negative or a zero - an absolute value can never be less than a negative number so tha tmeans that x-3 must equal zero. that means x=3

So IMO the answer is B.
Please if could help me with my line of thinking too....

I was thinking
for 1.
|x-3| >= y therefore x-3>=y (for x>=3) or 3-x>=y (for x<3). i.e x>=y+3 or x<=3-y. Now b'cos y can take any value >=0, x can take more than one values. INSUFFICIENT

for 2.
|x-3| <= -y therefore x-3>=-y (for x>=3) or 3-x>= -y (for x<3). i.e x>=3-y or x<=3+y. Now again b'cos y can take any value >=0, x can take more than one values.

Please correct me where I am going wrong.
Thanks.
The deal here is you cannot open a modulus the way you did. You can square it and open it, but that wont help in this question.
For any |x| = 1
Implies x=1 or x=-1

Also for a modulus operator
for |x|
= x if x>0
=-x if x<0


HTH
Last edited by eaakbari on Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whether you think you can or can't, you're right.
- Henry Ford
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by tpr-becky » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:50 pm
You cannot have an absolute value equal to a negative number, it is always positive - the way you have opened the equation is not allowed because it does not eliminate the possiblity of the absolute value being negative.
Becky
Master GMAT Instructor
The Princeton Review
Irvine, CA
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by iamseer » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:10 am
eaakbari wrote: For any |x| = 1
Implies -1<x<1
sorry didn't get that. B'cos that would mean |0.6| = 1 ????
I think, |x| means distance from zero. So, if |x| = 1 then x=1 or x=-1, right?
eaakbari wrote: Also for a modulus operator
for |x|
= x if x>0
=-x if x<0
HTH
Yes, this is correct.
"Choose to chance the rapids and dance the tides"
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by iamseer » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:16 am
tpr-becky wrote:You cannot have an absolute value equal to a negative number, it is always positive - the way you have opened the equation is not allowed because it does not eliminate the possiblity of the absolute value being negative.
Yups now I get it. Thanks for the explanation.
So, b'cos they have specifically mentioned y>=0, -y is always negative or zero. And absolute value cannot be negative so for the absolute value |x-3| to be equal or less than y only possibility is when y=0.

my wrong: in my working I was not taking the fact y>=0 into account and in the process making things unnecessarily difficult :)
"Choose to chance the rapids and dance the tides"
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by eaakbari » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:18 am
iamseer wrote:
eaakbari wrote: For any |x| = 1
Implies -1<x<1
sorry didn't get that. B'cos that would mean |0.6| = 1 ????
I think, |x| means distance from zero. So, if |x| = 1 then x=1 or x=-1, right?
eaakbari wrote: Also for a modulus operator
for |x|
= x if x>0
=-x if x<0
HTH
Yes, this is correct.
My bad, Dont know how i mistyped that. I meant x=-1 or x=1. Thanks for correcting. Shall edit the post
Whether you think you can or can't, you're right.
- Henry Ford
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