Ask an MBA Admissions Consultant

I am looking to apply in 2010 for admission to an MBA program in the Fall 2011 semester and am in the process of planning my application approach. Some relevant profile info is as follows:

GMAT:
I recently took the GMAT and received a composite score of 780 (Q: 50; V: 48) and an AWA score of 6.0.

GPA:
I graduated in May 2004 from a fairly small private liberal arts school in the Midwest with a B.S. in Finance and a GPA of 3.99. I immediately proceeded to a reputable, but not elite, state law school (also in the Midwest) and graduated with a J.D. in May 2007 with a GPA of 3.25. As might be expected, my undergraduate transcript bears a range of business-oriented quantitative coursework, while my law school record does not.

Experience:
In addition to having logged some part-time employment during law school, I anticipate having about 59 months of full-time work experience under my belt by MBA matriculation. I expect that about forty of those months will have been spent working for my current law firm in a tenure that will likely conclude around July 2010. As an associate attorney in my particular current firm, short-term opportunities for substantive advancement in responsibility and title are limited. However, due to some personal circumstances, I think it best to stay the course for about another year.

I have also worked two short-term (one-month) clerkships in Beijing with an unrelated (to my U.S. firm) Chinese law firm. I am still affiliated with that firm as outside U.S. legal counsel (requiring fairly occasional project work) and anticipate that I may further participate in a full-time one-year fellowship arrangement with that firm from July 2010 to July 2011. I am by no means fluent in Mandarin but have studied it for about a year and intend to continue doing so.

Extracurricular:
Over the course of my undergraduate, law school, and subsequent years, I have been fairly extensively involved in faith-based and other community extracurricular organizations and activities, and I have held a handful of leadership positions related to the same. I also participated in some intercollegiate academic competitions during my last two years of college. I didn’t play any varsity sports in undergrad, but I am an avid basketball fan/player. I received several academic scholarships in college and law school and was given a handful of other named awards. I am a fellow in a national legal organization and have published one small research-based work in the course of my involvement therein.

Objectives:
I am hoping to eventually move from traditional legal practice to a more entrepreneurial path. It is my post-MBA desire to create and develop a services-oriented business tailored to internationals (with an initial primary Chinese emphasis).

One of my highest priorities with respect to business school, however, is to complete a program without any debt. I recognize that this will likely narrow the range of schools on my radar, and I understand counter-arguments that might be presented with respect to return on investment at elite schools, student loans notwithstanding, but the debt-free objective is an important one for me. It is my anticipation that I will have sufficient funds to cover living expenses during both years of an MBA program, but essentially none left to allocate to tuition. Thus, a primary goal is to elicit at least one financial aid offer sufficient to cover tuition through non-repayable (grant, scholarship, fellowship, assistantship) aid only.

Questions:
I'm in the process of asking a few admissions consultants their thoughts on these two questions and would appreciate any feedback you might have:

(1) Assuming solid essays, recommendations, interviews, and other pieces of the application not quantified by the information given, at what sorts of programs do you think I might be competitive for both admission and financial aid offers that would fit my financial criteria?

(2) Would you suggest that I address my law school GPA or let it stand without explanation? At 3.25, it is substantially lower than my undergraduate GPA, and while I believe the disparity does not imply a low set of standards at my undergraduate institution, I think a full discussion of the same would have potential to prove dicey. I also think the similarity in both substance and structure is greater between my business-oriented undergraduate coursework and most MBA coursework than between law school coursework and most MBA coursework. I’m certainly willing to engage a short but tactful dialogue in my application if appropriate, but I think I’d prefer to avoid it unless doing so leaves a gap. What do you think?

Thanks so much for all of your help,

A Grateful Prospective Applicant

Hello!

I think that with your really extraordinary credentials that you can probably apply anywhere. In terms of yield on effort, I might eschew the Harvards and Stanfords of the world and, instead, focus on the Columbias, UCLA's, UVAs, etc., where you are in a real sweet spot of top top program but still good chance of a scholarship.

Remember that, even if you don't a full scholarship, you can still earn money over the summer, probably in the neighborhood of about $10,000; of course, if you want to do entrepeneurship, then you may be able to get some kind of funding to enable you to explore your idea over the summer.


In terms of your law school record I think that that will really depend on how your application evolves. My guess is that some kind of explanation will be useful (probably in the section that asks: "Is there anything else that you think we should know?") but I wouldn't worry too much about it. You are pretty clearly a quant guy and the fact that you were able to hack law school at all is probably enough.

Based on the little bit of information that you have given me, I would recommend applying to 1 Harvard / Stanford / Wharton, three or four UCLA UVA Kellogg, and two UNC NYUs. That way, you are maximizing your chance of getting a fellowship at some school while giving yourself a shot at a fellowship at a top top school.

Please let me know how your thinking evolves and if you have any other questions.

Cheers--

Paxton

Paxton,

Thanks for all your feedback. So, given my essential goal of securing a full-tuition offer, do you think the following list might be appropriate?

Duke
UVA
Georgetown
UNC
Emory
Indiana

I guess I'm also considering a "safety list" (though I recognize it's pretty tough to guarantee myself a full ride at any top-50 school) consisting of some combination of Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Wake Forest, and Thunderbird.

If you have any extra thoughts to add, feel free. If not, don't feel obligated to post an additional reply. Thanks again!

I think that that makes very good sense.

My other main thought is that Vanderbilt might belong in the first list rather than your "safety" list; second, and I hate do this to a program, but I would discourage you from going to Thunderbird. I just don't think that that program is strong enough for you.

I wanted to do an international MBA and looked at Thunderbird and the University of South Carolina (MIBS) but it didn't take me very long to grasp that the benefits of going to a dedicated int'l business program simply do not compare to the benefits of going to a top business school.

From alumni, to reputation, to network, to the great international programs that top business schools offer, etc., etc., etc., you are almost always better off not going to T-bird or USC. I am open to new data on this point but doubt it would shift my position much.

Another thought and this is important, too: your list is fine but remember that there are a lot of schools LIKE those the schools in your list. So...cast a wide net for programs to evaluate. Make sure that you are only applying to places that you want to go to since, given that your hurdle is not just getting in but getting a lot of free money, you may have just one option.

So...take advantage of the time that you have. Research programs, talk to alums, think about where you want your network to be, and THEN choose a list that has the roughly the same "quality ratio" as your list below.

Keep me posted on your thinking--

Paxton

Paxton,

Thanks again for your feedback. I appreciate your candor with respect to Thunderbird. I have heard the same feedback from another source as well, so I am definitely taking pause and I do intend to conduct more research in the next year before making a final decision on applying there.

With respect to bumping Vanderbilt up from the safety list, I again appreciate the feedback and want to make sure I understand the underlying thinking. Was the bump suggestion more due to Vanderbilt providing a better education than the safety schools (and thus meriting more positive consideration), having too competitive an applicant pool for me to consider a "safety school," or a combination of both?

I guess I didn't mention that my list was also impacted by geography. I strongly lean towards warmer climates, so that steers me away from many of the New England options. Indiana and Notre Dame would both be within striking distance of my roots, which might be sufficiently compelling to return to a somewhat colder climate, but most of the other options have me looking South.

Other schools that I intend to research before completely knocking off the list are the four California schools (Stanford - probably out, though, given my goals; UC - Berkeley - perhaps still too competitive for my objectives?; UCLA; and USC); Georgia Tech; Purdue (again, location might make it acceptable despite the colder climate); and Arizona St. I was originally excited about UT - Austin, but, judging from the McCombs website, the full scholarship funds don't seem to be very accessible for a non-minority male, so I'm not as optimistic about applying there.

If you have any other suggestions, fire away. Thanks again for taking the time to provide such extensive feedback!

Hi--

A few more thoughts.

With respect to bumping Vanderbilt up from the safety list, I again appreciate the feedback and want to make sure I understand the underlying thinking. Was the bump suggestion more due to Vanderbilt providing a better education than the safety schools (and thus meriting more positive consideration), having too competitive an applicant pool for me to consider a "safety school," or a combination of both?

I tend to think of Vandy as a school that punches above its reputational weight. It's a very fine school and has a very fine MBA program. I think its probably more competitive and a better education than most people give it credit for.

In the interests of full disclosure, I have LOTS of family that went to Vanderbilt so I'm kind of biased; plus, I have a cousin who went to buisness school there and really enjoyed and benefitted from the experience.

Even with that bias, though, I think Vandy deserves a better competitiveness and academic rep than it has.

I guess I didn't mention that my list was also impacted by geography. I strongly lean towards warmer climates, so that steers me away from many of the New England options. Indiana and Notre Dame would both be within striking distance of my roots, which might be sufficiently compelling to return to a somewhat colder climate, but most of the other options have me looking South.

You are wise to be thinking about this now! The other thing about geography, of course, is that your MBA network will be defined, in part, by the location of your school. Don't go to Northwestern if you want to build a network in Miami, etc. etc.

Other schools that I intend to research before completely knocking off the list are the four California schools (Stanford - probably out, though, given my goals; UC - Berkeley - perhaps still too competitive for my objectives?; UCLA; and USC); Georgia Tech; Purdue (again, location might make it acceptable despite the colder climate); and Arizona St. I was originally excited about UT - Austin, but, judging from the McCombs website, the full scholarship funds don't seem to be very accessible for a non-minority male, so I'm not as optimistic about applying there.

If you have any other suggestions, fire away. Thanks again for taking the time to provide such extensive feedback!

Well....a few thoughts off the top of my head:

- USC is not a national school; probably not a good call if you don't want your network to be in SoCal.

- You might also think about: Georgetown, Emory, UNC, UVA, Wake Forest (my alma mater)...I think I would go through a list of the top 50 schools and just see which strike your fancy. I could throw some out there but I'm not sure how useful it would be.

- UT and scholarships: I hear you about the scholarships. It's pretty outrageous but there's no use trying to throw yourself against the system.

- Indiana is, to my mind, kind of like Vanderbilt: a great program that just doesn't get enough credit. Purdue is solid but perhaps not quite as good as Indiana (in my mind and I'm not an expert on Midwest programs).


I'm really excited for you. Keep asking questions. It's fun to be working on this together!

Paxton