prob of 2 sibling

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prob of 2 sibling

by ruplun » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:31 pm
if among 5 children there are 2 siblings , in how many ways can the children be seated in a row so that the 2 siblings do not sit together?

Please solve with detail explanation....
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by Anurag@Gurome » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:18 pm
ruplun wrote:if among 5 children there are 2 siblings , in how many ways can the children be seated in a row so that the 2 siblings do not sit together?

Please solve with detail explanation....
Total no. of ways in which 5 children can be seated = 5! = 120 ways
Now, 2 siblings do not sit together, so consider 2 siblings as 1 child. So, 4 children can be arranged in 4! * 2! = 48 ways
Therefore, no. of ways to seat the children in a row so that the 2 siblings do not sit together = 120 - 48 = 72 ways
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by force5 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:38 pm
hi Anurag wanted to ask you a question- will it make a difference if siblings are of same gender or not? if they were 2 sisters or 2 brothers we would have considered them non identical? is there a prerequisite for considering a sample identical

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by Anurag@Gurome » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:42 pm
force5 wrote:hi Anurag wanted to ask you a question- will it make a difference if siblings are of same gender or not? if they were 2 sisters or 2 brothers we would have considered them non identical? is there a prerequisite for considering a sample identical
The question does not mention about the gender of siblings, the only condition is that the two siblings should not sit together, so in this particular case it does not matter whether they are 2 sisters or 1 sister + 1 brother, or 2 brothers. I hope that helps.
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by ruplun » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:45 pm
@anurag:whats the logic behind ....I mean why have this logic been used
arranged in 4! * 2!

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by Anurag@Gurome » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:13 pm
ruplun wrote:@anurag:whats the logic behind ....I mean why have this logic been used
arranged in 4! * 2!
If we have to find the no. of ways in which 2 siblings do not sit together, we first have to find all possible arrangements of 5 children, which can be done in 5! ways. Then, we have to subtract from this number, the number of ways in which 2 siblings are always together. And we considered 2 siblings as 1 child, so no. of children is now 4, which can be arranged in 4! ways and we multiplied 4! by 2!, as those 2 siblings can be arranged among themselves in 2! ways.

You can take a similar kind of example here, which might help to clarify the concept:
Find the number of different 6-letter arrangements that can be made from the letters of the word FATHER, so that all vowels do not occur together.

Here, If we have to count the no. of ways in which all vowels are never together, we first have to find all possible arrangments of 6 letters taken all at a time, which can be done in 6! ways. Then, we have to subtract from this number, the number of ways in which the vowels are always together (A and E are the vowels here).
Therefore, the required number 6! - 5! × 2! = 5!(6 - 2) = 480 ways
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by force5 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:29 pm
yes you are correct but my point is if it was given that two siblings are sisters or brothers. Then would we consider them identical and divide by 2!. i have this confusion a lot of times.

if you think then technically it should not effect us because 2 sisters would still be non identical. Thats what my question is .... what is the criteria of considering a sample identical? eg two blue balls in a bag and mostly its mentioned that they are identical or not. but in some cases its not mentioned.

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by Anurag@Gurome » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:46 pm
force5 wrote:yes you are correct but my point is if it was given that two siblings are sisters or brothers. Then would we consider them identical and divide by 2!. i have this confusion a lot of times.

if you think then technically it should not effect us because 2 sisters would still be non identical. Thats what my question is .... what is the criteria of considering a sample identical? eg two blue balls in a bag and mostly its mentioned that they are identical or not. but in some cases its not mentioned.
Sisters/brothers cannot be considered as identical. But if the identical objects are switched, the arrangement remains unchanged, example: as in the case of balls/beads, if they are not labelled or if it is not mentioned they are distinguishable from each other, then we consider the balls/beads as identical.
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by force5 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:57 pm
great Anurag then can i generalize that unless mentioned that sample/balls/pins are identical we will consider them non identical