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madhur_ahuja: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 435; Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:55 am; Thanked: 17 times

by madhur_ahuja » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:55 am

OA is A

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:48 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
sulabh wrote:I think A is right.
Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents.

A. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will
B. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would (misplaced)
C. growing number of people purchasing plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, many travelers will (AKWARD and meaning is changed)
D. fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would 9misplaced)
E. fact that the number of people who purchase plane tickets online are growing, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers compared with automatic teller machines, many travelers would

Can we have the OA ?
Great breakdown of the wrong answers! (A) should be the accredited choice.

Firstly,
How can we choose... option containing WILL ..when its know that any thing said in past abt future will take WOULD..

Here, CONVINCED THAT....(past) therefore answer should be B na ???

Secondly, i have read somewhere that its OK to use "comma+that" when the THAT is not addressing the middle modifier or sentence fragment..

i'm looking for a TV that costs less than $200.
you can write
i'm looking for a TV, with a remote, that costs less than $200.
here it appears that there's a "comma + that", but this is mostly an illusion: the comma before "that" isn't actually part of the main structure at all. it's used only to block off the modifier.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/comma-that-n ... 49361.html

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Stuart@KaplanGMAT: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3225; Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pmFollowed by: 614 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 1710 times; GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:41 pm

mmslf75 wrote:I think A is right.
Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents.

A. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will
B. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would (misplaced)
C. growing number of people purchasing plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, many travelers will (AKWARD and meaning is changed)
D. fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would 9misplaced)
E. fact that the number of people who purchase plane tickets online are growing, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers compared with automatic teller machines, many travelers would

Firstly,
How can we choose... option containing WILL ..when its know that any thing said in past abt future will take WOULD..

Here, CONVINCED THAT....(past) therefore answer should be B na ???

It's not the past tense, you ignored the key tense word:

"are convinced that"

which makes it the present.

"I am convinced that..."
"He is convinced that..."
"They are convinced that..."

are all in the present tense.

Secondly, i have read somewhere that its OK to use "comma+that" when the THAT is not addressing the middle modifier or sentence fragment..

This statement is correct, but that doesn't mean we always should do so; moving around modifiers often changes the meaning of the sentence and since the original is grammatically correct, and makes sense, any answer that changes the meaning is wrong.

Stuart Kovinsky | Kaplan GMAT Faculty | Toronto

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umaa: Legendary Member; Posts: 727; Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:32 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Thanked: 8 times

by umaa » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:29 pm

mmslf75 wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
sulabh wrote:I think A is right.
Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents.

A. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will
B. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would (misplaced)
C. growing number of people purchasing plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, many travelers will (AKWARD and meaning is changed)
D. fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would 9misplaced)
E. fact that the number of people who purchase plane tickets online are growing, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers compared with automatic teller machines, many travelers would

Can we have the OA ?
Great breakdown of the wrong answers! (A) should be the accredited choice.
Firstly,
How can we choose... option containing WILL ..when its know that any thing said in past abt future will take WOULD..

Here, CONVINCED THAT....(past) therefore answer should be B na ???

Secondly, i have read somewhere that its OK to use "comma+that" when the THAT is not addressing the middle modifier or sentence fragment..

i'm looking for a TV that costs less than $200.
you can write
i'm looking for a TV, with a remote, that costs less than $200.
here it appears that there's a "comma + that", but this is mostly an illusion: the comma before "that" isn't actually part of the main structure at all. it's used only to block off the modifier.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/comma-that-n ... 49361.html

E is out - ARE is a wrong antecedent & compared with is wrong

B, C and D are out: "airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines" - Changes the meaning

What we think, we become

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:20 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:I think A is right.
Despite the growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will still use travel agents.

A. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, many travelers will
B. growing number of people who purchase plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would (misplaced)
C. growing number of people purchasing plane tickets online, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, many travelers will (AKWARD and meaning is changed)
D. fact that the number of people purchasing plane tickets online is growing, airline executives are convinced, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers as compared to automatic teller machines, that many travelers would 9misplaced)
E. fact that the number of people who purchase plane tickets online are growing, airline executives are convinced that, just as one-third of bank customers still prefer human tellers compared with automatic teller machines, many travelers would

Firstly,
How can we choose... option containing WILL ..when its know that any thing said in past abt future will take WOULD..

Here, CONVINCED THAT....(past) therefore answer should be B na ???
It's not the past tense, you ignored the key tense word:

"are convinced that"

which makes it the present.

"I am convinced that..."
"He is convinced that..."
"They are convinced that..."

are all in the present tense.

Secondly, i have read somewhere that its OK to use "comma+that" when the THAT is not addressing the middle modifier or sentence fragment..
This statement is correct, but that doesn't mean we always should do so; moving around modifiers often changes the meaning of the sentence and since the original is grammatically correct, and makes sense, any answer that changes the meaning is wrong.

But then
"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?

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Stuart@KaplanGMAT: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3225; Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pmFollowed by: 614 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 1710 times; GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:44 pm

mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?

No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:20 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?
No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.

Ok...
By saying TO BE VERBS u mean basic forms of VERBS ??
Can u give examples please!!

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Stuart@KaplanGMAT: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3225; Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:40 pmFollowed by: 614 members; Location: Toronto; Thanked: 1710 times; GMAT Score:800

by Stuart@KaplanGMAT » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:37 am

mmslf75 wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?
No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.
Ok...
By saying TO BE VERBS u mean basic forms of VERBS ??
Can u give examples please!!

Umm.. I just gave a bunch of examples... heh.

I was tired/I am tired/I will be tired.

Taxes were reduced/Taxes are reduced/Taxes will be reduced.

He was convinced/He is convinced/He will be convinced.

In all of those cases, the part of the sentence that you're thinking of as a verb ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is actually the object of the verb "to be", in much the same way "happy" is the object of "to be" in the sentence "He is happy".

So, the action in all of those sentences is "being" and the following word ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is simply what you are being, not when you are being it.

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:20 am

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?
No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.
Ok...
By saying TO BE VERBS u mean basic forms of VERBS ??
Can u give examples please!!
Umm.. I just gave a bunch of examples... heh.

I was tired/I am tired/I will be tired.

Taxes were reduced/Taxes are reduced/Taxes will be reduced.

He was convinced/He is convinced/He will be convinced.

In all of those cases, the part of the sentence that you're thinking of as a verb ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is actually the object of the verb "to be", in much the same way "happy" is the object of "to be" in the sentence "He is happy".

So, the action in all of those sentences is "being" and the following word ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is simply what you are being, not when you are being it.

Oh..thanks Stuart...kinda got confused w.r.t TO BE ..Verbs..

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:51 am

Look at this one

https://www.beatthegmat.com/in-contrast- ... tml#211109

Topic: In contrast to
Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:10 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In contrast to environmentalists proposals to limit emissions of certain pollutants, the administration proposed calling for mandatory restrictions of only three such pollutants from power plants-mercury, sulfur dioxide, and nitrogen oxides-and the plan would delay such cuts until 2010 or later.

A. administration proposed calling for mandatory restriction of
B. administration proposed a call for mandatory restrictions, including those for
C. administration, proposing mandatory restrictions on
D. administration's proposal was a call for mandatory restrictions, which include
E. administration's proposal would call for mandatory restrictions on

Here OA is E

Why WOULD Is used.. we do not have past to future refernt here !!

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lunarpower: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 3380; Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 amFollowed by: 1535 members; Thanked: 2256 times; GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?
No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.
Ok...
By saying TO BE VERBS u mean basic forms of VERBS ??
Can u give examples please!!
Umm.. I just gave a bunch of examples... heh.

I was tired/I am tired/I will be tired.

Taxes were reduced/Taxes are reduced/Taxes will be reduced.

He was convinced/He is convinced/He will be convinced.

In all of those cases, the part of the sentence that you're thinking of as a verb ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is actually the object of the verb "to be", in much the same way "happy" is the object of "to be" in the sentence "He is happy".

So, the action in all of those sentences is "being" and the following word ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is simply what you are being, not when you are being it.

yeah.

in fact, stuart is basically just giving you a summary of the passive voice.
that's all these verbs are: passive verbs.

i was convinced --> past, passive
i had been convinced --> past perfect, passive
i am convinced --> present, passive
i have been convinced --> present perfect, passive
i would be convinced --> conditional, passive
(it is important that) i be convinced --> subjunctive, passive
etc.
etc.

these verbs can take every tense that's possible for normal "active" verbs.

--

in any case:

if you see
studies have shown that...
X said that...
people believe that...
X has found that...
etc.

these are just "WARMUPS" and can be completely ignored in any treatment of the grammar of the sentence.

they don't even affect verb tense:
studies have found that X happened
studies have found that X currently happens
studies have found that X will happen
studies have found that X had happened (before Y happened)
studies have found that X has happened
studies have found that X would have happened (if Y had happened)
etc.

Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions Ã Ron en franÃ§ais
Voit esittÃ¤Ã¤ kysymyksiÃ¤ Ron:lle myÃ¶s suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vÃªtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vÃªtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:54 am

lunarpower wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:
Stuart Kovinsky wrote:
mmslf75 wrote:"are convinced that" also contains, CONVINCED which is past right ?
No... to be honest, I don't know what the official grammatical terminology is (you never need to know technical language for the GMAT!), but even though "convinced" sounds like the past, it's not.

I was convinced;
I am convinced;and
I will be convinced

are examples of the past, present and future, respectively, but all use "convinced" as part of the construction.

There are other words that work the same way, such as "tired" and "reduced"; what they all have in common is that they describe states of being and require the verb "to be" first. The form of the verb "to be" that you use determines the tense of the action.
Ok...
By saying TO BE VERBS u mean basic forms of VERBS ??
Can u give examples please!!
Umm.. I just gave a bunch of examples... heh.

I was tired/I am tired/I will be tired.

Taxes were reduced/Taxes are reduced/Taxes will be reduced.

He was convinced/He is convinced/He will be convinced.

In all of those cases, the part of the sentence that you're thinking of as a verb ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is actually the object of the verb "to be", in much the same way "happy" is the object of "to be" in the sentence "He is happy".

So, the action in all of those sentences is "being" and the following word ("tired", "reduced", "convinced") is simply what you are being, not when you are being it.
yeah.

in fact, stuart is basically just giving you a summary of the passive voice.
that's all these verbs are: passive verbs.

i was convinced --> past, passive
i had been convinced --> past perfect, passive
i am convinced --> present, passive
i have been convinced --> present perfect, passive
i would be convinced --> conditional, passive
(it is important that) i be convinced --> subjunctive, passive
etc.
etc.

these verbs can take every tense that's possible for normal "active" verbs.

--

in any case:

if you see
studies have shown that...
X said that...
people believe that...
X has found that...
etc.

these are just "WARMUPS" and can be completely ignored in any treatment of the grammar of the sentence.

they don't even affect verb tense:
studies have found that X happened
studies have found that X currently happens
studies have found that X will happen
studies have found that X had happened (before Y happened)
studies have found that X has happened
studies have found that X would have happened (if Y had happened)
etc.

Ron,

STUDIES HAVE FOUND... is undoubtedly PRESENT PERFECT TENSE right??
Then how can we "ignore" them as just "WARMUPS"???

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papgust: Community Manager; Posts: 1537; Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:10 pmFollowed by: 252 members; Thanked: 653 times

by papgust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:29 pm

mmslf,

Please don't "quote" a mighty long text. It's too frustrating to keep scrolling the page to read posts.

You could quote specifically if you want to point something.

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mmslf75: Legendary Member; Posts: 503; Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:53 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 31 times

by mmslf75 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:18 am

papgust wrote:mmslf,

Please don't "quote" a mighty long text. It's too frustrating to keep scrolling the page to read posts.

You could quote specifically if you want to point something.

huh ?!

Then dont scroll simple

, Kidding!!

Will take care in future !!

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hk_4u: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 79; Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:16 pm

by hk_4u » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:26 am

Hi Stuart

few queries related to this question

1 - the growing number of people who blah blah
VS
the number of people who purchased tickets are growing

My initial impression was that the growing number of people is wrong. Since the question does not tests this, it doesn't really matter. But are both forms correct and acceptable ?

2 - usage of the fact that - I have read on a few threads that this usage is always wrong in GMAT , your comments ?

3 - Does the position of "that" really matters ? Again ,I feel it is not really tested as all other options have clear idiom or tense errors .

I feel both these forms are fine

officials are convinced,modifier, that many travelers ...
officials are convinced that ,modifier ,many travelers ...

4 - The method of comparison is new for me. I haven't really seen any other question where 2 clauses are compared in such a way. Is it a common thing to do ?

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