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tense usage SC

by paes » Sat May 08, 2010 9:02 pm
His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(A) in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(B) when segregation existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(C) when segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(D) when segregation had existed wher there were neighborhoods now multi-ethnic.
(E) in which segregation existed in what are now multi-ethnic neighborhoods.

[color=black]I am confused between A and E.
It should be had existed or existed. Please explain.[/color]
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by aspirant2010 » Sun May 09, 2010 6:59 am
It should be "had existed".............
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by paes » Sun May 09, 2010 7:21 am
OA is E.
Source : Princeton, 1012 Practice questions

It is saying that
'had existed' is not appropriate because segregation occurred in the past, not in the past before something else in the past.

But I am not convinced with the answer.
Expert please help.
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by sumanr84 » Sun May 09, 2010 10:04 am
paes wrote:His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(A) in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(B) when segregation existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(C) when segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(D) when segregation had existed wher there were neighborhoods now multi-ethnic.
(E) in which segregation existed in what are now multi-ethnic neighborhoods.

[color=black]I am confused between A and E.
It should be had existed or existed. Please explain.[/color]
Past Perfect (HAD+Past Pasticiple) is always preferred only when we have two successive events one after the another. In GMAT, otherwise, we stick to simple past tense.
Apart from tense, I see that in A we have in now currently that is awkward as now and currently are basically the same thing.
I am on a break !!
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by paes » Sun May 09, 2010 9:59 pm
sumanr84 wrote:
paes wrote:His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(A) in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(B) when segregation existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(C) when segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(D) when segregation had existed wher there were neighborhoods now multi-ethnic.
(E) in which segregation existed in what are now multi-ethnic neighborhoods.

[color=black]I am confused between A and E.
It should be had existed or existed. Please explain.[/color]
Past Perfect (HAD+Past Pasticiple) is always preferred only when we have two successive events one after the another. In GMAT, otherwise, we stick to simple past tense.
Apart from tense, I see that in A we have in now currently that is awkward as now and currently are basically the same thing.
Please ignore the awkward issue for the time being, I want to understand it from only verb usage point of view.
I am seeing two events here :
1. ... led Mayor Webster to recall ---> Simple past
2. .. in which segregation (had) existed ----> It should be in past perfect, because it is a prior instance to 1.

What is wrong with this approach ?
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by akhpad » Sun May 09, 2010 10:43 pm
paes wrote:His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(A) in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(B) when segregation existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(C) when segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(D) when segregation had existed wher there were neighborhoods now multi-ethnic. => WORDY
(E) in which segregation existed in what are now multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
I believe that this problem is plagiarize from OG Review 12th Ed - Problem #70, and author made easier than that.

"now currently' => is redundant
NOW should be near to verb. Ex IS NOW, ARE NOW etc

Based on these. I arrived at OA: E

Here, We need past past construction.

Please check another thread (sub-thread) for similar problem.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/glaciers-off ... 57437.html
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by rockeyb » Sun May 09, 2010 10:57 pm
paes wrote:
sumanr84 wrote:
paes wrote:His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(A) in which segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(B) when segregation existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(C) when segregation had existed in now currently multi-ethnic neighborhoods.
(D) when segregation had existed wher there were neighborhoods now multi-ethnic.
(E) in which segregation existed in what are now multi-ethnic neighborhoods.

[color=black]I am confused between A and E.
It should be had existed or existed. Please explain.[/color]
Past Perfect (HAD+Past Pasticiple) is always preferred only when we have two successive events one after the another. In GMAT, otherwise, we stick to simple past tense.
Apart from tense, I see that in A we have in now currently that is awkward as now and currently are basically the same thing.
Please ignore the awkward issue for the time being, I want to understand it from only verb usage point of view.
I am seeing two events here :
1. ... led Mayor Webster to recall ---> Simple past
2. .. in which segregation (had) existed ----> It should be in past perfect, because it is a prior instance to 1.

What is wrong with this approach ?
Ok I will try to answer your question .

Have a look at an extract from MGMAT SC book , this will help clear things up.
NOTE : We do not always use Present Perfect for earlier action . In general you should use Past Perfect only to clarify or emphasize a sequence of past events . The earlier event should have a bearing on the context of the later event .
Ex : By the time we arrived the movie HAD already started .

Two events both in past . One happened after another . Most important part is one events effects another . OR there is some relation between the two events in past and hence Past Perfect is necessary to indicate the sequence as to which event occurs first .

Now lets get back to the example .

What LED the mayor to recall AND the existence of segregation in society . Do these two things have any relation at all . Dose one event effect another ?

Compare it with the movie example above . The result of late arrival was that the move started . One event clearly effects another .

Remember : Dont jump to Past Perfect if you see two events in PAST see if the two events have any relation between them . This is a trick that GMAT plays it will disguise Past Perfect where events will not be related and more often than not people will fall for it .

HTH .
"Know thyself" and "Nothing in excess"
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by paes » Sun May 09, 2010 11:17 pm
Thanks Akhilesh and Rockey for such good explanations.

One further clarification please :

IS 'now/currently' playing any role here to choose the simple past vs past perfect.

[ Because at some places, the explanation was : because of 'now', it should be simple past. ]


If my understanding is correct then following should be the case :

His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation existed. [ Correct ]

His tour of new outdoor mall, erected in the newly revitalized urban centre, led Mayor Webster to recall an America in which segregation had existed. [ Incorrect ]

ie. 'now/currently' is not playing any role to choose a simple past.
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by rockeyb » Sun May 09, 2010 11:26 pm
You are right now / currently is not deciding if the sentence should be in past tense .

Also now and currently both mean the same thing .
"Know thyself" and "Nothing in excess"
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