BREAKING: Target Test Prep releases Brand New 2026 On Demand GMAT prep course

Redeem

Pronoun error - they & them - Tricky.

This topic has expert replies
Post new topic Locked
Previous Topic Next Topic
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:08 am
Thanked: 10 times
Followed by:1 members

Pronoun error - they & them - Tricky.

by gmatrant » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:36 am
==>Question 1
Formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to new small businesses in the same way as they do to established big businesses, because they are growing and are seldom in equilibrium.

(A) Formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to new small businesses in the sameway as they do to established big businesses, because they are growing and are seldom in equilibrium.

(D)Because new small businesses are growing and are seldom in equilibrium, formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to them in the same way as to established big businesses.

Clarification 1
OA is D. Now in this sentence what does them refer to , there is no noun in the objective case.
Isn't this an error "small business" is a subject noun isnt it?

==>Question 2 - From Manhattan GMAT

Researchers claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibres, which they allege give them the strength of cast iron.

Clarification 2
What does they refer to in the above sentence, is it cellulose fibres or Researchers. If this is a ambiguous pronoun error, then how is the below OG sentence correct? Shouldn't the below also have a pronoun referent error.

A study commissioned by the Department of Agriculture showed that if calves
exercise and associated with other calves, they will require less medication and
gain weight quicker than do those raised in confinement.

(A) associated with other calves, they will require less medication and gain
weight quicker than do
(E) associate with other calves, they require less medication and gain weight
more quickly than

OA is E. In this case why is there no pronoun ambiguity error as in the previous sentence.?

==>Question 3

The Wallerstein study indicates that even after a decade young men and women still experience some of the effects of a divorce occurring when a child.
(A) occurring when a child
(B) occurring when children
(C) that occurred when a child
(D) that occurred when they were children
(E) that has occurred as each was a child

Clarification 3
OA is D, here why is there no ambiguity with respect to 'they' pronoun?
[/b]
Top
Source: — Sentence Correction |
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:24 am
One humble request. Please post one question per thread.
gmatrant wrote:==>Question 1
Formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to new small businesses in the same way as they do to established big businesses, because they are growing and are seldom in equilibrium.

(A) Formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to new small businesses in the sameway as they do to established big businesses, because they are growing and are seldom in equilibrium.

(D)Because new small businesses are growing and are seldom in equilibrium, formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to them in the same way as to established big businesses.

Clarification 1
OA is D. Now in this sentence what does them refer to , there is no noun in the objective case.
Isn't this an error "small business" is a subject noun isnt it?
In the original sentence, pronoun "they" is used twice and both times it refers to different things. This is not allowed.

Formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to new small businesses in the same way as they do to established big businesses, because they are growing and are seldom in equilibrium.

The first they refers to formulas and the second one refers to small businesses. When you use a pronoun in a sentence, no matter how many times you repeat that pronoun, it has to refer the same noun every time.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:51 am
gmatrant wrote: ==>Question 2 - From Manhattan GMAT

Researchers claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibres, which they allege give them the strength of cast iron.

Clarification 2
What does they refer to in the above sentence, is it cellulose fibres or Researchers. If this is a ambiguous pronoun error, then how is the below OG sentence correct? Shouldn't the below also have a pronoun referent error.
As I said in my previous post. When you use a pronoun multiple times in your sentence, it has to refer to the same noun every time. They and Them are basically the same pronoun, one is a subject-pronoun and the other one is object-pronoun. In your first sentence They is supposed to refer Researchers and Them is supposed to refer "nano-papers". This is not allowed since both pronouns are basically the same. Both the pronouns must refer to the same noun. If you assume that both they and them refer to the same noun, then there is ambiguity about which noun it should refer to(Researchers or "nano-papers") and also the meaning of the sentence gets distorted.
gmatrant wrote: A study commissioned by the Department of Agriculture showed that if calves exercise and associated with other calves, they will require less medication and gain weight quicker than do those raised in confinement.

(A) associated with other calves, they will require less medication and gain
weight quicker than do
(E) associate with other calves, they require less medication and gain weight
more quickly than

OA is E. In this case why is there no pronoun ambiguity error as in the previous sentence.?
In this OG example, OA is E because of parallelism. "and" before the start of underlined part of the sentence is a parallel connector, so both "exercise" and " associate" need to be parallel. " associated" is not parallel with "exercise".

Coming to your question about the pronoun they.

When a sentence has two clauses attached to each other, and the start of the second clause is a pronoun, then in most cases the pronoun refers to the subject of the previous clause.

First clause - calves exercise and associated with other calves - Subject is calves

Second clause - they require less medication and gain weight quicker than do those raised in confinement. - They refers to the subject of the previous clause.

Hope that helps...
Last edited by hardik.jadeja on Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:51 am, edited 5 times in total.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:56 am
gmatrant wrote: ==>Question 3

The Wallerstein study indicates that even after a decade young men and women still experience some of the effects of a divorce occurring when a child.
(A) occurring when a child
(B) occurring when children
(C) that occurred when a child
(D) that occurred when they were children
(E) that has occurred as each was a child

Clarification 3
OA is D, here why is there no ambiguity with respect to 'they' pronoun?
[/b]
Same principle applies here as well.

First clause - men and women still experience some of the effects of a divorce - Subject is men and women

Second clause - they were children - they refers to the subject of the previous clause.

Hope that helps..
Top
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:08 am
Thanked: 10 times
Followed by:1 members

by gmatrant » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:38 am
Thanks Hardik. I posted the questions together because they were interrelated

Because new small businesses are growing and are seldom in equilibrium, formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to them in the same way as to established big businesses.

So going by your explanation, in the above sentence, there are two clauses and the second clause reads as follows
"formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to them in the same way as to established big businesses"
In the above clause the subject is formulas, so does pronoun 'them' refer to formulas? But isn't them a object pronoun and I don't find an noun in its objective case.

Researchers claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibres, which they allege give them the strength of cast iron

In your first sentence They is supposed to refer Researchers and Them is supposed to refer "nano-papers". This is not allowed since both pronouns are basically the same. Both the pronouns must refer to the same noun.

Isn't 'they' the subjective pronoun and refers to the subject of the sentence (researchers), while 'them' is the objective pronoun and therefore refers to the object after the verb (fibres).

Last but not the least, please read my first sentence, I would be countering what ever I said in the above :)
"I posted the questions together because they were interrelated "
Threre are two clauses and in the second clause here 'they' refers to questions :), but isn't questions the object of the previous sentence, and they a subject pronoun referent.


Please explain.
Apologies if this is a bit confusing.

Thanks
gmatrant.
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:23 am
I think you did not understand properly. The principle I mentioned applies only when you have two clauses with similar structures and the only difference between them is that one has a proper subject noun and the other has a pronoun in place of the subject. I did not say that you should look for the noun representing the same form as the pronoun. I did not say that if a pronoun is in object form, then look for an object noun.
gmatrant wrote:Because new small businesses are growing and are seldom in equilibrium, formulas for cash flow and the ratio of debt to equity do not apply to them in the same way as to established big businesses.
There is only one logical reference for THEM in the above sentence. THEM cant refer to formulas because if it does, then the sentence doesn't make sense. So THEM refers to only new small businesses. There is no ambiguity in the sentence here.
gmatrant wrote:Researchers claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibres, which they allege give them the strength of cast iron
A sentence has a pronoun ambiguity only when a pronoun could refer to two different nouns and the sentence still makes sense. In the above sentence, lets say both THEY and THEM refer to "Researchers". If you check the sentence, it still makes sense. "nano-papers" could give Researchers the strength of cast iron.
gmatrant wrote:"I posted the questions together because they were interrelated"
There is only one plural noun before the pronoun THEY. So THEY refers to questions only. Again, there is no ambiguity in the sentence.

Hope that helps..
Top
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:08 am
Thanked: 10 times
Followed by:1 members

by gmatrant » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:44 pm
hardik,
For a moment lets forget if the sentence is grammatically correct. on any other count except for the pronoun reference 'they'.
Aren't there two clauses, so shouldn't they be referring to authorities, but in a lot of forum posts I see the comment that 'they' can be ambiguous.

Federal authorities involved in the investigation have found that local witnesses are difficult to locate and reticent, and that they are suspicious of strangers

Can you help me understand this
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:29 am
gmatrant wrote:hardik,
For a moment lets forget if the sentence is grammatically correct. on any other count except for the pronoun reference 'they'.
Aren't there two clauses, so shouldn't they be referring to authorities, but in a lot of forum posts I see the comment that 'they' can be ambiguous.

Federal authorities involved in the investigation have found that local witnesses are difficult to locate and reticent, and that they are suspicious of strangers

Can you help me understand this
I do not think that they is ambiguous in the above sentence. I think it refers only to local witnesses.

Observe the use of parallel connector AND. The two clauses you need to match in structure are

1) local witnesses are difficult to locate and reticent.
2) they are suspicious of strangers

When you see a sentence with the structure "X and Y", you need to make sure both X and Y are parallel. The clauses are logically parallel only if both clauses are referring to the same subject.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/federal-auth ... 23934.html

In the above post, option E is wrong because it breaks the structural parallelism by omitting the word that before the pronoun they.

Read the following posts. They may answer some of your questions.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/pronouns-and ... tml#177727.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/pronouns-and ... tml#199279
https://www.beatthegmat.com/pronoun-issu ... tml#267494

Hope that helps...
Top
Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:08 am
Thanked: 10 times
Followed by:1 members

by gmatrant » Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:44 am
Thanks hardik, I am getting some clarity with respect to tackling pronouns, esp after your recent post.

Two things I wanted to discuss with respect to the below sentence

From the earliest days of the tribe, kinship determined the way in which Ojibwa society organized its labor, provided access to its resources, and defined rights and obligations as they were involved in its distribution and consumption

1. In one of your earlier posts you had written that possesive pronoun can refer to a possesive noun or another noun that can have ownership like 'Johan and his sister'
So in that case the above sentence why is 'its' ambiguous, its refers to society similar to 'its labour, its resources'. But OG states otherwise. Can you please explain

2. I feel there is an issue with 'they', society is singular and hence 'they' cannot refer to society. Had it been a plural subject and would the sentence have been correct, given that it maintains parallelism and each clause refers to the subject. Pls explain
Top
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:12 am
Thanked: 87 times
Followed by:5 members
GMAT Score:730

by hardik.jadeja » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:52 am
Original sentence:
A) From the earliest days of the tribe, kinship determined the way in which the Ojibwa society organized its labor, provided access to its resources, and defined rights and obligations involved in the distribution and consumption of those resources.

B) From the earliest days of the tribe, kinship determined the way in which the Ojibwa society organized its labor, provided access to its resources, and defined rights and obligations as they were involved in its distribution and consumption.
gmatrant wrote: So in that case the above sentence why is 'its' ambiguous, its refers to society similar to 'its labour, its resources'. But OG states otherwise. Can you please explain
As far as I know, in a sentence all the occurrences of a same pronoun are supposed to refer the same noun. So going by that rule, IT should refer to society like all the other occurrences of IT in the sentence. The only exception to this rule I know of is when a sentence uses a place-holder IT. Clearly the IT in discussion is not a place-holder IT.

I find some of the OG explanations not proper at times. Sometimes OG does not explain things in detail. My reasoning for considering option B wrong is that it changes the meaning of the original sentence. Lets say, IT has a clear referent society. Now read the original sentence, the original sentence talks about distribution and consumption of resources. Now if IT refers to society, then option B talks about distribution and consumption of the society, which, I think, is wrong. Since IT is a singular pronoun, there is noway it could refer to the plural noun resources. I think, maybe, that's the reason why OG says IT does not have a clear referent.
gmatrant wrote: 2. I feel there is an issue with 'they', society is singular and hence 'they' cannot refer to society. Had it been a plural subject and would the sentence have been correct, given that it maintains parallelism and each clause refers to the subject. Pls explain
I do not think that they is ambiguous here. They does not refer to the society but in fact it refers to rights and obligations. Read the original sentence carefully, it is the rights and obligations that are involved in the distribution and consumption of the resources. As you said, society is a singular noun and hence they cannot refer to society. Your next approach should be to find a plural noun and check whether the pronoun they could refer to this plural noun.

Hope that helps..
Top
Post new topic Locked
• Page 1 of 1