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question1

by confuse mind » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:56 pm
Repelled by bodily punishments such as maiming and branding, the idea of penitentiaries were reforms of the penal system by Quakers.
(A) the idea of penitentiaries were reforms of the penal system by Quakers
(B) penitentiaries were ideas for reform of the penal system suggested by Quakers
(C) Quakers suggested the penitentiary as a reform of the penal system
(D) Quakers suggested that the penal system be reformed as penitentiaries
(E) the penitentiary was suggested to be a reform of the penal system by Quakers


The correct answer is C. But, AFAIK, with suggest, we always use a command subjective form and thus I feel, the correct answer must be D
Last edited by confuse mind on Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by sivaelectric » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:02 pm
MY Choice is C
If I am wrong correct me :), If my post helped let me know by clicking the Thanks button ;).

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by smackmartine » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:19 pm
IMO C

More than grammar , this sentence needs meaningful structure.

Penitentiary is a correctional institution for those convicted of major crimes.

D says one institution be reformed as another system. (awkward)

In C ,"the institution as a reform of the penal system" (reform is a noun here )
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by singh181 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:24 pm
IMO D

Modifier issue in A, B and E. Opening modifier points at the wrong doer.
Between C and D, C is awkward. C says "Quakers suggested the penitentiary", resulting in a awkward structure. "that" is required here.
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by smackmartine » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:37 pm
D has one more error.

penal system (singular) be reformed as penitentiaries (plural). (illogical)
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by singh181 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:40 pm
I understand your point. Are you pointing to specific rule??
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by smackmartine » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:48 pm
singh181 wrote:I understand your point. Are you pointing to specific rule??
No. it's just illogical to reform a single entity into many entities.

"Penal system be reformed as Penitentiary" still sounds ok!!
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by singh181 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:26 pm
smackmartine wrote:
singh181 wrote:I understand your point. Are you pointing to specific rule??
No. it's just illogical to reform a single entity into many entities.

"Penal system be reformed as Penitentiary" still sounds ok!!
is it a documented rule? if it is, pls share the source.
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by smackmartine » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:00 pm
singh181 wrote:
smackmartine wrote:
singh181 wrote:I understand your point. Are you pointing to specific rule??
No. it's just illogical to reform a single entity into many entities.

"Penal system be reformed as Penitentiary" still sounds ok!!
is it a documented rule? if it is, pls share the source.
No, its not a documented rule.
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:07 pm
confuse mind wrote:Repelled by bodily punishments such as maiming and branding, the idea of penitentiaries were reforms of the penal system by Quakers.
(A) the idea of penitentiaries were reforms of the penal system by Quakers
(B) penitentiaries were ideas for reform of the penal system suggested by Quakers
(C) Quakers suggested the penitentiary as a reform of the penal system
(D) Quakers suggested that the penal system be reformed as penitentiaries
(E) the penitentiary was suggested to be a reform of the penal system by Quakers


The correct answer is C. But, AFAIK, with suggest, we always use a command subjective form and thus I feel, the correct answer must be D
Great discussion.

Moreover, there is a trick which says that, always choose the option that has same wordings as that in question stem.

C does that.
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by Frankenstein » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:28 pm
Hi,
The usage of suggest is correct in both C and D.
We generally say reform of a policy/system...
I think the problem with D is the part after reformed. Do we say a system is reformed as an institution(penitentiary)? I don't think so.

Hence, C is better IMO
Last edited by Frankenstein on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by cans » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:30 pm
IMO C
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by confuse mind » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:37 pm
I agree with the difference of singular/plural, here penitentiary makes more sense.

I am confused since Manhattan SC guide strictly says that with suggest, command subjunctive form be used. (page - 114)


Any Experts replies?
Any Manhattan people here?
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by Frankenstein » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:19 am
confuse mind wrote:I agree with the difference of singular/plural, here penitentiary makes more sense.

I am confused since Manhattan SC guide strictly says that with suggest, command subjunctive form be used. (page - 114)


Any Experts replies?
Any Manhattan people here?
Hi,
Both the usages for 'suggest' are correct. The problem with D is in the latter part as I have already posted. I will leave the rest for experts to comment on this.
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by smackmartine » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:00 am
singh181 wrote:
smackmartine wrote:
singh181 wrote:I understand your point. Are you pointing to specific rule??
No. it's just illogical to reform a single entity into many entities.

"Penal system be reformed as Penitentiary" still sounds ok!!
is it a documented rule? if it is, pls share the source.
I was going through OG SC Q 30 - explanations. The option B says that the singular "method" should not refer to plural "items".
I guess this is not the perfect example for the ongoing discussion, but I hope that, to an extent, it talks about correct usage of singular-to-singular and plural-to-plural references.
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