Of the adults who live in Idaho, approximately 5% own livest

This topic has expert replies
User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:27 am
Thanked: 48 times
Followed by:7 members

by vinay1983 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:36 pm
lunarpower wrote:
vinay1983 wrote:Ron! Can I write a descriptive prose in Shakespearean style about how I feel about seeing your answers. To the point, accurate, enlightening!
Thanks.

Shakespeare didn't write much prose, though. Mostly poetry. (His prose is mostly ironic/comic -- so you might be implying that my answers aren't easy to read at all.)
|:
I would never say that. Sorry didn't know that Shakespeare wrote prose. I meant to indicate feeling of happiness and joy.No offence!Sorry :(
You can, for example never foretell what any one man will do, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to!

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:05 pm
Ha! No worries, of course I'm not offended. I'm just playing.
I guess it's hard to convey humor over the internet.

But I guess, if nothing else, there's a vocabulary lesson there: prose means, basically, "normal text". I.e., text that is not poetry.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:27 am
Thanked: 48 times
Followed by:7 members

by vinay1983 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:53 pm
lunarpower wrote:Ha! No worries, of course I'm not offended. I'm just playing.
I guess it's hard to convey humor over the internet.

But I guess, if nothing else, there's a vocabulary lesson there: prose means, basically, "normal text". I.e., text that is not poetry.
Yes Sire!got it. Hmm it is difficult to express humour, but that is needed.Lil of humour goes along way!
You can, for example never foretell what any one man will do, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to!

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:39 am
(:
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members

by ngalinh » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:43 am
This question has the new "cover" with sub-group data, but its "seed" is actually classical: it has a big jump from evidence to conclusion, so needs a link as an assumption. But its quant-figure made my mind stray away from the main clue. I now come back and see it more clearly.

However, I has no chance to come back when I sit for the exam.
What kind of question I can ask myself at that time in order to quickly get out of the confused mind?
guerrero wrote:Of the adults who live in Idaho, approximately 5% own livestock. Of the adults who live in Idaho and indicated support for a recently proposed bill via an online poll, however, approximately 12% own livestock. Clearly, adults who own livestock are more likely to be affected by the proposed legislation than are adults who do not own livestock.

The conclusion drawn above is based on the assumption that _____________.

A)Adults who own livestock were less likely to indicate support via the online poll than were adults who do not own livestock.

B)The number of adults who indicated support for the bill via the online poll was greater than the number of adults who own livestock.

C)At least some of the adults in Idaho who own livestock responded more than once to the online poll.

D)Adults who indicate support for legislation are more likely to be affected by that legislation than are adults who do not indicate support.

E)Adults who own livestock in Idaho are more likely to indicate support for proposed legislation than are adults who own livestock in a state with less livestock.

OA D

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:37 pm
ngalinh wrote:This question has the new "cover" with sub-group data, but its "seed" is actually classical: it has a big jump from evidence to conclusion, so needs a link as an assumption. But its quant-figure made my mind stray away from the main clue. I now come back and see it more clearly.

However, I has no chance to come back when I sit for the exam.
What kind of question I can ask myself at that time in order to quickly get out of the confused mind?
The issue here, it seems, is the way you're thinking about the problem in general.

I.e., you're busying yourself with trying to "classify" things -- subgroup data, "classic" pattern, etc. -- instead of actually thinking about the situation described in the problem.

Those kinds of thoughts should always be backups, to be used only if you are completely confused by the situation described in the passage. If you understand what the passage is describing, then forget about classifying things, and just think about the situation the way you'd consider its real-world equivalents.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:37 pm
If necessary, make an analogy -- same logic, but with more intuitive subject material -- to help you understand.
E.g.,
55% of people in California support the legalization of marijuana. However, 80% of people under 30 support the legalization of marijuana. Therefore, people under 30 must be more likely to smoke marijuana than older people.
--> This is effectively the same argument, but it might be easier to think about. Here, it should be clear that there's a huge jump between (a) supporting the legalization of marijuana, and (b) actually wanting to smoke it.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members

by ngalinh » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:09 am
Excellent explanation, Ron!
lunarpower wrote: The issue here, it seems, is the way you're thinking about the problem in general.
Absolutely true! My mind busily run into a corner to investigate an annoying piece of information but forgot to (or cannot) return to the big picture.
I.e., you're busying yourself with trying to "classify" things -- subgroup data, "classic" pattern, etc. -- instead of actually thinking about the situation described in the problem.
Those kinds of thoughts should always be backups, to be used only if you are completely confused by the situation described in the passage.
You seem to know every corner in students' mind. :(
If necessary, make an analogy -- same logic, but with more intuitive subject material -- to help you understand.
E.g.,
55% of people in California support the legalization of marijuana. However, 80% of people under 30 support the legalization of marijuana. Therefore, people under 30 must be more likely to smoke marijuana than older people.
A perfect analogy!

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:52 am
ngalinh wrote:
I.e., you're busying yourself with trying to "classify" things -- subgroup data, "classic" pattern, etc. -- instead of actually thinking about the situation described in the problem.
Those kinds of thoughts should always be backups, to be used only if you are completely confused by the situation described in the passage.
You seem to know every corner in students' mind. :(
Nah, I've just taught many different things, to many different ages of students. One thing I've learned, in general, is that terminology/classification kills understanding.
In other words, as soon as there are "names" or "labels" that people can stick on things, they just stop trying to understand those things. Instead, it just becomes a game of slapping meaningless labels on things.

As an example, the concept of losing/gaining electrons, from elementary chemistry, is very simple. Honestly it's something that a six- or seven-year-old would have very little trouble understanding. (An electron is "minus one". If you add that, you are minus one. If you take it away, you are plus one.)
But, as soon as those things are given the name "cation" and "anion", WHOA all the understanding just goes out the window. Unless students already understand the concept before they are given the names, it becomes an extremely difficult struggle to learn anything once the names are given. This is a pretty common theme.

Same thing is usually true in real life. Consider things that you put into your body. A contrast:

* When people think about medicines, they don't normally try to classify the medicines. (Jim takes Prozac for depression; he doesn't think about the fact that it's called a "SSRI". He takes Advil for pain, without thinking that it's called a "NSAID".)
As a result, they have a pretty good idea of which drugs do what things to them. They may not understand all the biochemistry, but they'll have a pretty detailed practical understanding.

* When people think about nutrition, though, they have the term "carbohydrate", which applies to a huge and diverse set of different types of foods -- everything from potatoes to high-fructose corn syrup. Because the label "carbohydrates" exists, the vast majority of people simply never formulate any understanding of the functions of, or the differences between, the foods that receive that label. So you get people who think that eating brown rice and eating sugar are basically the same. They don't understand the differences at all; some of them don't even know that there are differences.
It's all the label's fault.
If the label "carbohydrate" didn't exist, people would think more about how these foods actually affect them, and about the differences that exist between them.

Just keep these examples in mind. And make up more of them. (Imagine if you tried to make a five-year-old memorize the term "jerk" before the child understood what manners are! That would be a disaster.)

Never stick labels on things until you already understand how they work. Once that understanding is VERY solid, then go ahead and slap all the labels you want on things.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

User avatar
Legendary Member
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:27 am
Thanked: 48 times
Followed by:7 members

by vinay1983 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:14 am
lunarpower wrote:
ngalinh wrote:
I.e., you're busying yourself with trying to "classify" things -- subgroup data, "classic" pattern, etc. -- instead of actually thinking about the situation described in the problem.
Those kinds of thoughts should always be backups, to be used only if you are completely confused by the situation described in the passage.
You seem to know every corner in students' mind. :(
Nah, I've just taught many different things, to many different ages of students. One thing I've learned, in general, is that terminology/classification kills understanding.
In other words, as soon as there are "names" or "labels" that people can stick on things, they just stop trying to understand those things. Instead, it just becomes a game of slapping meaningless labels on things.

As an example, the concept of losing/gaining electrons, from elementary chemistry, is very simple. Honestly it's something that a six- or seven-year-old would have very little trouble understanding. (An electron is "minus one". If you add that, you are minus one. If you take it away, you are plus one.)
But, as soon as those things are given the name "cation" and "anion", WHOA all the understanding just goes out the window. Unless students already understand the concept before they are given the names, it becomes an extremely difficult struggle to learn anything once the names are given. This is a pretty common theme.

Same thing is usually true in real life. Consider things that you put into your body. A contrast:

* When people think about medicines, they don't normally try to classify the medicines. (Jim takes Prozac for depression; he doesn't think about the fact that it's called a "SSRI". He takes Advil for pain, without thinking that it's called a "NSAID".)
As a result, they have a pretty good idea of which drugs do what things to them. They may not understand all the biochemistry, but they'll have a pretty detailed practical understanding.

* When people think about nutrition, though, they have the term "carbohydrate", which applies to a huge and diverse set of different types of foods -- everything from potatoes to high-fructose corn syrup. Because the label "carbohydrates" exists, the vast majority of people simply never formulate any understanding of the functions of, or the differences between, the foods that receive that label. So you get people who think that eating brown rice and eating sugar are basically the same. They don't understand the differences at all; some of them don't even know that there are differences.
It's all the label's fault.
If the label "carbohydrate" didn't exist, people would think more about how these foods actually affect them, and about the differences that exist between them.

Just keep these examples in mind. And make up more of them. (Imagine if you tried to make a five-year-old memorize the term "jerk" before the child understood what manners are! That would be a disaster.)

Never stick labels on things until you already understand how they work. Once that understanding is VERY solid, then go ahead and slap all the labels you want on things.
Thank you Ron, that is excellent thought you have shared, absolutely priceless.
You can, for example never foretell what any one man will do, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to!

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members

by ngalinh » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:25 pm
Ron, so how should we call you if we haven't learned about you well enough? :)

I agree with Vinay! I always dreamed I would have a strict Teacher like This, but never had one, except some from books. His words often pull me away from dark clouds (and put me into a hole--to think more)
lunarpower wrote:
Nah, I've just taught many different things, to many different ages of students. One thing I've learned, in general, is that terminology/classification kills understanding.
In other words, as soon as there are "names" or "labels" that people can stick on things, they just stop trying to understand those things. Instead, it just becomes a game of slapping meaningless labels on things.
That's true to me. The reason is mental laziness (accept things already existing without questions), or the brain perceives some terms as superior things, beyond its ability to understand.
* When people think about nutrition, though, they have the term "carbohydrate", which applies to a huge and diverse set of different types of foods -- everything from potatoes to high-fructose corn syrup. Because the label "carbohydrates" exists, the vast majority of people simply never formulate any understanding of the functions of, or the differences between, the foods that receive that label. So you get people who think that eating brown rice and eating sugar are basically the same. They don't understand the differences at all; some of them don't even know that there are differences.
It's all the label's fault.
If the label "carbohydrate" didn't exist, people would think more about how these foods actually affect them, and about the differences that exist between them.
That's an interesting discovery! Anyway sometimes a "term" can go before its "content". For example: some people say: Ron is an excellent test expert; Other's words: Ron's a great psychologist; More rumors: He's superior. But Ron may respond like this: Excuse me! I am more than the plus of all those things. So just call me: Ron! If you see 10 other Rons, remember, we are different, like brown rice and sugar.
Never stick labels on things until you already understand how they work. Once that understanding is VERY solid, then go ahead and slap all the labels you want on things.
That's clear, Master! (wait a minute, I have to study more about the word "Master")

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 pm
ngalinh wrote:Ron, so how should we call you if we haven't learned about you well enough? :)
Some people call me things I can't write here.
(:

There's always "Hey you (with all the hair)", I suppose.
I agree with Vinay! I always dreamed I would have a strict Teacher like This, but never had one, except some from books. His words often pull me away from dark clouds (and put me into a hole--to think more)
Do you think I'm "strict"?
Hmm.
But I'm such a sweetheart.

o_O

Seriously, though, it's always interesting to hear others' perceptions of me. I'm genuinely curious about what is "strict" about my style on here. Blunt? Brutally honest? Or just tactless? Ha.
Interesting.
That's true to me. The reason is mental laziness (accept things already existing without questions), or the brain perceives some terms as superior things, beyond its ability to understand.
Precisely. That's what you're fighting. You need to know the enemy before you can defeat it.

Now you know the enemy. Next step is to defeat it.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members

by ngalinh » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:06 pm
lunarpower wrote:
Some people call me things I can't write here.
(:
Humm, we often keep a secret because we think only we have. Actually, it can be an universal phenomenon :)
There's always "Hey you (with all the hair)", I suppose.
Haha, you still remember the historical story.

Do you think I'm "strict"?
Ok, I would not keep the secret here.

By "strict" I mean it's "relevantly strict". That means you intuitively know what your students need and honestly tell/require them to do necessary things. To learn, we first have to recognize our inside world before we can put something in. Some parts of this world may be very dark, so it's quite bitter when seeing those. That's why I said "strict", but it was sweetly strict. (In fact, I have a lot of fun with the lessons of this strict Teacher)

One thing that drew my attention at the beginning is that you instinctively expected the true learning from your students (even from strangers who considered themselves your students). This created the sense of true studying from the students (or at least from myself). Maybe it's the gift given to people who were born to be Masters.

You need to know the enemy before you can defeat it.

Now you know the enemy. Next step is to defeat it.
I admit that I've never truly studied (due to some circumstances in the past). But one day a dream suddenly fell into my head and has been staying still there, so I have to start my journey of fighting bad habits.

So, the most important tool I need is this: (sorry, I quote it from another post of yours)
Your whole universe should consist of the 1 problem in front of you. Nothing else.
How could you practice to fully control the mind like this? What kind of miracle mantras (or some sort of techniques) have you used at the moment you practice to get rid of instinctive concern, such as something relating to basic survival, which is always a priority of your subconscious?
One of my experience: my brain couldn't work properly if I didn't feel secure. No matter how good reasons I used to persuade myself, my mind was still divided.

Of course, one has to find one's own mantra, but I am curious about yours. (if it's not the universal secret that you don't want to tell)

GMAT/MBA Expert

User avatar
GMAT Instructor
Posts: 3380
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:20 am
Thanked: 2256 times
Followed by:1535 members
GMAT Score:800

by lunarpower » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:47 am
This discussion appears to have gotten rather far afield from the original problem. So, let's kill it here. Thanks for the kind words.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

--

Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

--

Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

Yves Saint-Laurent

--

Learn more about ron

Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:05 pm
Thanked: 3 times
Followed by:1 members

by ngalinh » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:10 am
Yeah, am I an expert of digression?! Sorry all folks!
Thanks Ron for inspiring me to keep looking. (the first step to obtaining)