1000sc# 171

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johnfun1001: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 2; Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:42 pm

by johnfun1001 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:03 pm

Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, like adults, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

(A) like adults
(B) unlike an adult
(C) as adults
(D) as adults do
(E) as an adult

Why the answer is not A but D?

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:03 pm

800guy: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 354; Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:20 pmFollowed by: 5 members; Thanked: 11 times

Re: 1000sc# 171

by 800guy » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:46 pm

johnfun1001 wrote:Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, like adults, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

(A) like adults
(B) unlike an adult
(C) as adults
(D) as adults do
(E) as an adult

Why the answer is not A but D?

maybe it will help you to see the answer if we rearrange the sentence a bit:

because young children, like adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may notice and remember details that their elder ignore.

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Stacey Koprince: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2228; Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pmFollowed by: 694 members; Location: Montreal, Canada; Thanked: 639 times; GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:22 am

This is the "like" vs. "as" lesson - be careful, because we all mess this one up in everyday English:

"like" is used to compare nouns. Just nouns - nothing else.
"as" is used to compare clauses (ie, a phrase that includes a verb - could include a noun, too, but has a verb)

We have defaulted, in spoken English, to using "like" all the time - but we're speaking incorrectly when we do so.

So, logically, the sentence is not just comparing children to adults, but what children don't do to what adults do. Children don't organize systematically. Adults do organize systematically. Because the verb is part of this comparison, we have to use "as."

And we can't just use the "as" - we have to say "as adults do" b/c, again, we're comparing the verb.

A "like" sentence might say: Bobby's eyes, like those of his brother Peter, are blue. I'm not comparing "are blue" to something else - in fact, there isn't even another verb in the sentence to compare with. Here, I really am just comparing Bobby's eyes to Peter's eyes (just nouns), so I use "like."

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Alpha800: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 84; Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:18 pm; Location: Silicon Valley; Thanked: 4 times

Re: 1000sc# 171

by Alpha800 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:11 pm

johnfun1001 wrote:Because young children do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, like adults, they may notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

(A) like adults
(B) unlike an adult
(C) as adults
(D) as adults do
(E) as an adult

Why the answer is not A but D?

Stacey, just for clarification, if I restructure the sentence as follows, would it be grammatically correct?

Because young children, unlike adults, do not organize their attention or perceptions systematically, they may not notice and remember details that their elders ignore.

In my restructured example above, does your rule still apply?

So, logically, the sentence is not just comparing children to adults, but what children don't do to what adults do. Children don't organize systematically. Adults do organize systematically. Because the verb is part of this comparison, we have to use "as."

Is the verb still a part of the comparison in my reorganized sentence?

And I fully realize that I can't restructure the sentence into a format I want or like on the GMAT. I merely ask to clarify the distinction for my personal understanding. It would be my assertion that given the restructuring I've made to the original sentence above, that it would be acceptable to use "like/unlike". Am I right in my assertion or do I stand to be corrected?

Thanks in advance for the clarification!

Last edited by Alpha800 on Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:44 pm

Please explain the meaning difference between

like adults, the children organize the perceptions

and

the children organize the perceptions as adults do.

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madhur_ahuja: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 435; Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:55 am; Thanked: 17 times

Re: 1000sc# 171

by madhur_ahuja » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:02 pm

johnfun1001 wrote:
Why the answer is not A but D?

Please Do not post the answer in advance.

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Stacey Koprince: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2228; Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pmFollowed by: 694 members; Location: Montreal, Canada; Thanked: 639 times; GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:09 pm

Alpha, yes, you can do that. You've moved the "adults" part of the comparison next to the children and now you're simply saying that the adults are not like the children (in some way that is explained later in the sentence). Totally fine.

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:19 pm

Stacey, pls, help , answering my question. pls

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matanga: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 12; Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:57 pm; GMAT Score:650

by matanga » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:47 am

I think the issue here is the fact that the sentence is not comparing children to adults, but, instead, it is comparing the action (attention or perception). This is where you inset "as" instead of 'like". Once you know that, you can eliminate A and B. Then you look at C, D, and E and realize only D makes sense.

Hope this helps !

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Stacey Koprince: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2228; Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pmFollowed by: 694 members; Location: Montreal, Canada; Thanked: 639 times; GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:12 am

Please explain the meaning difference between

like adults, the children organize the perceptions

and

the children organize the perceptions as adults do.

The meaning is really close here, but there is a subtle difference.

In the first one, you're saying that children organize something. And then you're saying that the adults are like the children in that the adults also organize that something. To make this clearer, let's say that both the adults and the children are organizing a set of numbers. The children organize from the bottom up: 1, 2, 3, etc. The adults organize from the top down: 10, 9, 8, etc. They're both organizing the numbers - they don't just let the numbers sit in a jumble on the floor - but they are not organizing the numbers in the same way.

In the second one, you're saying not only that they both organize the numbers (as you said in the first sentence), but also that they organize those numbers in the same way. So maybe they all organize from the bottom up. Make more sense?

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Alpha800: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 84; Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:18 pm; Location: Silicon Valley; Thanked: 4 times

by Alpha800 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:39 pm

Stacey Koprince wrote:
Please explain the meaning difference between

like adults, the children organize the perceptions

and

the children organize the perceptions as adults do.

The meaning is really close here, but there is a subtle difference.

In the first one, you're saying that children organize something. And then you're saying that the adults are like the children in that the adults also organize that something. To make this clearer, let's say that both the adults and the children are organizing a set of numbers. The children organize from the bottom up: 1, 2, 3, etc. The adults organize from the top down: 10, 9, 8, etc. They're both organizing the numbers - they don't just let the numbers sit in a jumble on the floor - but they are not organizing the numbers in the same way.

In the second one, you're saying not only that they both organize the numbers (as you said in the first sentence), but also that they organize those numbers in the same way. So maybe they all organize from the bottom up. Make more sense?

Nicely illustrated example. Very easy to grasp. Thanks Stacey. The difference between the sentences is indeed very subtle, but still quite relevant in the scenario you've painted.

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Thank you very much Stacey.

one questions more

I do not see the meaning difference like what you have explain is applied to this question.

Pls, explain how you choose D and sort out A in this question by applying your explanation you have just told us.

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Stacey Koprince: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2228; Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pmFollowed by: 694 members; Location: Montreal, Canada; Thanked: 639 times; GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:57 am

I actually don't think that the example I explained for Alpha fits the above problem so well. In the above problem, we're discussing a contrast - something the children do NOT do and the adults DO. In the example for Alpha, we were discussing what they were both doing.

In the original sentence, it's unclear whether we're saying that the adults are like the children in that neither group organizes stuff systematically, or whether we're saying that children don't organize stuff systematically but adults do organize stuff systematically.

Actually, the way the original sentence is written, because it says "like adults," we should really assume from the opening part that the adults are like the children, and therefore the adults also don't organize stuff systematically.

BUT, the end of the sentence indicates that there is a DIFFERENCE between the adults and the children. You wouldn't say, "Because these two people are alike in some way, they then do something differently." That doesn't make logical sense. So the meaning must be that the adults are NOT like the children, and because the two groups are not alike, we observe the difference discussed at the end of the sentence.

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tanviet: Legendary Member; Posts: 1404; Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 18 times

by tanviet » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:16 am

Thank you Stacey, great explanation.

I have a problem

Is it right that when I face a quetion which include "like" and "as" which are both grammatiacal, I have to decide which choice, "like" choice or "as" choice is more logic ?

I feel very hard to decide which choice is correct. Do you have any experience to solve my problem?

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Stacey Koprince: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2228; Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:28 pmFollowed by: 694 members; Location: Montreal, Canada; Thanked: 639 times; GMAT Score:780

by Stacey Koprince » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:46 am

The like vs. as question is a tricky one, because technically, you can write a sentence either way - as long as the other parts of the sentence are correctly constructed.

The general rule to follow (though there are exceptions - as there are to any rule): in a "like" construction, the noun taking the word "like" should not also have a verb attached to it. In an "as" construction, the noun taking the word "as" should have its own verb. In both cases, whatever the other noun is that's being compared should also have its own verb.

As I said, there are exceptions to this rule, but most of the time you can simplify it to: like = one verb (placed with the other noun, not the "like" noun), as = 2 verbs (one placed with each of the two nouns in the comparison).

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