bblast wrote:yet another subtle use of would- I wont type the question here :

refer og12- SC-16.

Its a real stumper if u dnt understand the meaning of the sentence. Came across it today.

Why not will there instead of would

the MGMAT rule (IF Hypothetical Subjunctive, THEN Conditional) - "would" applies to that question. there is an if condition as far as I remember (do not have the OG with me now). The if condition has a hypothetical past tense, hence we need would in the correct option.

also if u read thoroughly, u will notice that none of the options in that question come close, as the intended meaning is only conveyed with a "would."

The SC is
Retail sales rose 0.8 of 1 percent in August,
intensifying expectations that personal spending in
the July-September quarter more than doubled that
of the 1.4 percent growth rate in personal spending
for the previous quarter.

(A) that personal spending in the July-September
quarter more than doubled that of
(B) that personal spending in the July-September
quarter would more than double
(C) of personal spending in the July-September
quarter, that it more than doubled
(D) of personal spending in the July-September
quarter more than doubling that of
(E) of personal spending in the July-September
quarter, that it would more than double that of

Th e sentence explains the expectations that
resulted from a past retail sales trend. Since
expectations look to the future but are not yet
realized, the relative clause explaining these
expectations should be conditional, employing
the auxiliary verb would.

There is no if condition here . The case for using would here is different . Its used to make a prediction rather than a hypothet. subjunctive that is used for unlikely situations.
I agree with you on the point that the option "would " is better than the rest . But i am trying to understand why would is so important here and why cant would be replaced by will .

yup, i guess this is not a if - then construction.
this also lies in the past tense would usage category.

Notice - >, retails sales rose(past tense),,,,intensifying expectations that something would happen.

Lemme give it a try to form a present tense of this sentence.

If retails sales rise, the sales will intensify expectations of Vikram.

mundasingh123 wrote: There is no if condition here . The case for using would here is different . Its used to make a prediction rather than a hypothet. subjunctive that is used for unlikely situations.
I agree with you on the point that the option "would " is better than the rest . But i am trying to understand why would is so important here and why cant would be replaced by will .

Hi,
That is because 'will' when converted to past tense changes to would(like in reported speech).
Example: I said "I will go to US"
I said that I would go to US.

Frankenstein wrote:

mundasingh123 wrote: There is no if condition here . The case for using would here is different . Its used to make a prediction rather than a hypothet. subjunctive that is used for unlikely situations.
I agree with you on the point that the option "would " is better than the rest . But i am trying to understand why would is so important here and why cant would be replaced by will .

Hi,
That is because 'will' when converted to past tense changes to would(like in reported speech).
Example: I said "I will go to US"
I said that I would go to US.

How do you know "intensifying " is not an action happening now but a past action. intensifying is a present participle .

I read somewhere , i cant recall where that a comma + ing modifier take the tense of the clause that it modifies

mundasingh123 wrote: How do you know "intensifying " is not an action happening now but a past action. intensifying is a present participle .

Expectations were made in the past, not intensifying.

Ilana@MasterGMAT wrote:The better option is "will". *by two degrees - plural. The prediction is that something will certainly occur. The word 'would' is a modal verb that indicates some level of possibility or uncertainty, or preference. Would is commonly used in conditionals that indicate a hypothetical/uncertain situation.

Scientists predict that global warming will/would raise the temperature by 2 degree.
Scientists predict that global warming will/would raise the temperature by 2 degree (approx).

Just want to confirm one thing,In 2nd sentence, even when the rise is approximately 2 degrees we will use PREDICT because the the prediction is CERTAIN though the amount of rise is UNCERTAIN.

bblast wrote:No VIkram : the sentence is correct : I just went back to MGMAT- here is the original sentence :
IF Sophie ATE pizza tomorrow, THEN she WOULD BECOME ill.
(IF Hypothetical Subjunctive, THEN Conditional)



another example from mgmat sc :

The scientist BELIEVED that the machine WOULD BE wonderful. (I think the theory of would is the past tense form of will is applicable in this sentence)

present tense is :
The scientist BELIEVES that the machine Will BE wonderful.

Actually i said so because ATE(past) & tomorrow(Future) don't go hand in hand. Tomorrow should be changed to yesterday ?

Can you explain what is "HYPOTHETICAL SUBJUNCTIVE". It is If (past tense)....then (would)

What should be the ans. (please explain the reason)
The govt has proposed a law that will/would decrease the no. of crimes.

I think would should be used because of UNCERTAINITY that law will decrease the no. of crimes. What you say....

For sake of everyone,I will summarize all the usages of would. Feel free to add anything, do add thanks if you find nothing to add

1. If - then conditionals.
2. When something CERTAIN is said BUT in PAST.
I predicted that i would win the race. ....CERTAIN EVENT in PAST
I predict that i will win the race ....CERTAIN EVENT in PRESENT

3. Something UNCERTAIN is said in PRESENT.
According to weather forecast,It would rain tomorrow ....UNCERTAIN EVENT in PRESENT

hey vikram just go through MGMAT SC-verb tense mood chapter(last few pages) for sometime,
its really worth reading it 2-3 times (I am reading it for the 3rd time)- u will be clear on hypothetical subjunctive.


for the rule stated above-
According to weather forecast,It would rain tomorrow ....UNCERTAIN EVENT in PRESENT

This would is not allowed. It should be will. {there was a queestion in OG-10, i dont remember the number- testing this usage}

If the sentence above is in hypothetical subjuctive (if-then) only then would is applicable. :
The weather forecasters predict that if vikram rose early from bed tomorrow,it would rain. ....

Now take this monster SC I encountered in MGMAT-3:

The health commissioner said that the government had implemented strict measures to eradicate the contaminated food and, despite the recent illnesses, it will try to prevent the outbreak from recurring in the future.


it will try

that it tried

it had tried

it would have tried

that it would try

Hi,

Government will try in future. So, in reported speech 'will' becomes would in past tense.

Hence, E