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which clause

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by linfongyu » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:49 pm
I am thoroughly confused as to how to conjugate the verb for the which clause. See below for example:

Critics are always pointing out that the list of writers who never won, which include/includes Tolstoy, Proust, Borges, Joyce, Nabokov and Auden.

does "which" modifies list? or writers? what is the rule? does the verb always modify the noun closest preceding it?

Another example:
Less detrimental than the effects of bacterial transformation are the effects of bacterial deterioration, which include/includes spoilage of food, corrosion of metals, decay of wood and other undesirable alterations of substances.

again, does the phrase modify effects? or deterioration? is there a hard, fast rule? please elucidate.
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by Bidisha800 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:55 pm
(A) includes
(B) include
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by linfongyu » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Gee! Thanks Bidisha800! How could I be so stupid. It all makes perfect sense now :|
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by Bidisha800 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:10 pm
linfongyu wrote:Gee! Thanks Bidisha800! How could I be so stupid. It all makes perfect sense now :|
Jeez ..... It will make even more sense if you grab a grammar book and read a little ..
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by Gmatss » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:57 pm
bidish why are you so sarcastic on so many of the replies? You may be a smart person but don't think that everyone's capable like you.
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by linfongyu » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 pm
So let's all grab grammar books and there would be no need for such message boards... :roll:

I gave a curt response because I was asking for an explanation, rather than just an answer. I have the answer key already!

So, oh wise one, if you can enlighten me with your thought process, or a set of rules that I could use if I were to encounter different sentences with similar structure in the future, I would be temporarily grateful. Or, should I need to look into grammar books, what is this clause/phrase structure called? Surely it isn't called a "which clause."

Thanks in advance.
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by Bidisha800 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:49 pm
linfongyu wrote:So let's all grab grammar books and there would be no need for such message boards... :roll:

Thanks in advance.
The day this message board could replace a grammar book, I'll rent a gun, buy a bullet and kill myself.
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by Bidisha800 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:51 pm
Gmatss wrote:bidish why are you so sarcastic on so many of the replies? You may be a smart person but don't think that everyone's capable like you.
God bless you, I think everyone is more capable than I am.
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by stop@800 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:22 pm
2
which will refer to "the effects of bacterial deterioration"
if i remove prepositional clause "of bacterial deterioration" [prepositional clauses needs to be removed while deciding subject ver agreement]
so which refers to effects

hence "include" is correct


1
similarly
which refers to "list of writers who never won"
again remove "of writers who never won"
so list si singular
hence includes


A small point to make it more clear
list of writers who have never won
I used have because who refers to writers

Hope this helps
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by linfongyu » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:02 am
Thanks, stop@800. You rock!

To recap:

For non-restrictive relative causes, those normally preceded by a comma, the verb must agree with the preceding noun, stripping away the prepositional phrases.

For restrictive relative causes, those normally without the commas, the verb can agree with either the preceding noun or the object of the preposition depending on its modifier. So watch the hell out!
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by chase4meg » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:51 am
Good one, will keep this in mind :)
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by chase4meg » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:52 am
Good one, will keep this in mind :)
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