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MAJOR ISSUE: VA Section Changed by GMAC?

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MAJOR ISSUE: VA Section Changed by GMAC?

by foobarnull » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:12 pm
I've noticed that recent GMAT takers have been getting dismal V scores in comparison to their expectations & prep scores. I've only read a few accounts of this happening so far (links at bottom), but it is all from people who've taken the test in the last couple of weeks and had significantly better (claimed) GMATPrep & MGMAT scores.

Hit reply and let us know your thoughts on these points... (If you're an authority on any matter, do mention it)
  • 1) Is there any truth to this?
    2) Is there any precedent?
    3) How do changes to the GMAT usually get implemented?
    4) I'm thinking it may have something to do with the recent ScoreTop crackdown. GMAC recently put up an article about this issue on their site. Is it possible that they'd do something this drastic to the rest of us?

NOTE: I realize that this is a very casual observation, and I'm only trying to centralize our discussion. I'm looking to pick everyone's brains about this matter since it's something that will affect us all greatly, if true. It'd be nice to minimize the number of surprises on G-day for everyone.


https://www.beatthegmat.com/messed-it-bi ... 16737.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/bombed-570-q ... 16471.html
https://www.beatthegmat.com/beaten-by-gm ... 16066.html
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by foobarnull » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:13 pm
P.S. Hopefully this gets the attention of GMAC officials and they can shed light on the matter instead of having their customers relying on hearsay. Long shot, but worth a try.
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by BlueRain » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:10 pm
I guess my reply won't really help your argument per se, but see the following thread.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/increasing-d ... 16700.html

My take on this is that if you honestly prepared for the verbal fundamentals, then do not let this RUMORED change bother you. Spend more time preparing for the test instead of worrying about a rumor.

Just my 2c.
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by foobarnull » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:38 pm
BlueRain wrote:I guess my reply won't really help your argument per se, but see the following thread.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/increasing-d ... 16700.html

My take on this is that if you honestly prepared for the verbal fundamentals, then do not let this RUMORED change bother you. Spend more time preparing for the test instead of worrying about a rumor.

Just my 2c.
I agree with you 100%; I intend on studying as hard as possible regardless, but it'd be nice to have a definite answer on whether or not newer test takers are at a disadvantage. The fact that GMAT scores are good for 5 years means that people taking the test now (if things are getting as tough as rumored) are at a disadvantage.
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by BlueRain » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:57 pm
My take on this is if GMAC ever admits making the test tougher, then the AdComs would all know about the transition and take the fact into account when viewing your score. Thus, no significant disadvantage there.

If the GMAC doesn't AND IF the tests are now indeed tougher, there won't be much you can do about it if you have a test date scheduled. Most people won't put off taking the test until GMAC admits something since it won't offer an advantage one way or another (see above). So somewhat unfair advantage for the people who took the test previous to the transition, but no one knows for sure, but no significant disadvantage between people who are taking the test now.

I actually see more disadvantage in the first scenario where you now know for sure the tests are tougher, then you suffer a drop in confidence which is really detrimental when it comes to standardized testing.

To be 100% sure, if someone can invent a time machine to go back in time... :P
Last edited by BlueRain on Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Theory

by foobarnull » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:57 pm
Came up with this theory:

Maybe the ScoreTop scandal has caused GMAC to put more experimental questions in the midst of regular ones, thereby throwing people off? I imagine that their question bank is depleted severely since the crackdown. So maybe the tougher questions aren't counting against us... who knows. Would appreciate more input.
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by aim-wsc » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:37 am
I welcome such discussions. In fact I liked it. I too, used to think a lot just like that. ;)

Coming back to the topic: I don't believe in these "rumors". Yes you might be correct in stating that verbal level has increased, (on some other forum I just reponded about Quant dificulty level increased) So lets say overall GMAT difficulty level has increased. But it has nothing to do with ScoreTop scandal. I dont think scoretop is influential in this.

GMAT used to be a lot easier earlier BUT the change is slow and gradual depending upon the test takers performance. Experimental questions stuffed in GMAT decides much of the future trend in GMAT style. ... it has nothing to do with ScoreTop of any external news, for that matter.

& By the way, GMAC's been suspecting scoretop since long ago, it's just that news csme out few months ago... surely will not make a drastic change in GMAT pattern.

One more think: All you guys must be aware (or I think it's obvious) that GMAC keeps on adding new questions to current database of the test & removes some old items. If we notice, it's been quite some time since GMAT Prep launched. So in my theory GMATPrep could not be as trustworthy software as it used to be.
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by aim-wsc » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:48 am
foobarnull wrote:P.S. Hopefully this gets the attention of GMAC officials and they can shed light on the matter instead of having their customers relying on hearsay. Long shot, but worth a try.
LONG SHOT :lol:
indeed.
Maybe we can straightaway call GMAC and ask. to know what they say. :? :roll: :lol:

I'd be surprised if some authority reply here. :D
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by rosh26 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:34 pm
See thread below:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/increasing-d ... 16700.html

We should all email GMAC and/or call to get a definitive answer on this...if they even admit to it....
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by Ian Stewart » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:17 pm
GMAC can't choose to make the test harder. The scoring algorithm is entirely based on the calibration of questions, and remember that we, as GMAT test-takers, determine how hard questions are by answering them when they are diagnostic questions. To give a simple example: if GMAC writes a question, and includes it as a diagnostic on a real GMAT, and all the 40-level Verbal test-takers get the question wrong, and all the 42-level Verbal test-takers get it right, it will be considered a 41-level question. That kind of stark division would never happen- calibration is all done based on complex statistics- but that's essentially the idea. Notice that because of this, if the test-taking population improves, the test will get harder for future test-takers, and this is what I think has been happening in the Quant section recently. This has nothing to do with a decision made by GMAC, and all to do with the increased time GMAT takers are devoting to preparation.

What GMAC can do is change the style of questions they write, so that people see things that seem unfamiliar on the test, which will make the test seem harder. I've also explained, in a thread on this forum, how issues like the ScoreTop scandal might change the calibration of some questions, making the scoring of future GMAT tests harder for honest test-takers.

So in brief, I think the Verbal section may be slightly harder now (and from a recent test, I do think it is a bit harder, but not much), but not because GMAC decided 'let's make the test harder'. I expect they're trying to update the style of the questions in the verbal so the test isn't too predictable, and I expect some of the illegal activity on some GMAT forums is having a small influence as well. Still, I think GMATPrep gives a very good indication of what the real verbal is like, and I expect some people find the real test more difficult in part because of psychological factors- test pressure, time pressure, etc.
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by foobarnull » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:14 am
Ended up getting a V48 on the real thing -- I highly doubt that it's been made more difficult. Maybe it's time to lock this thread up.
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by LSB » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:22 am
Agree - scored a V46. It was difficult ... but as one would expect for this score. This thread is unnecessarily freaking ppl out.
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by aim-wsc » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:41 am
46 & 48 are great scores in Verbal, guys!
Congrats.

I think my earlier post & Ian's post clear most of the doubts here, so I hope people wont panic now.
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:42 pm
Totally agree with Ian.

Just wanted to add one thing on a comment someone made about how it's been a while since GMATPrep came out. It is true that GMATPrep first came out a while ago, but they are also quietly updating / changing the pool of questions in GMATPrep as time goes on. Various people here have downloaded the software at different times since it launched and the pool of questions has not remained the same.

That's also good news if you took GMATPrep a while ago and are gearing up to study again - download the new software so that you reduce your chances of seeing repeats. (Though I should note: they haven't changed the pool of GMATPrep questions dramatically - but some are definitely dropping out and new ones are definitely showing up over time.)
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by amitdgr » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:47 pm
As Ian says, There is almost no possibility that GMAC has actually upped the difficulty or changed the algorithm.

I read this elsewhere ...

We know that there are "some" experimental questions on the GMAT. There is a possibility that we actually end up getting the experimental(uncounted) questions right and make mistakes on the real(counted) questions.

Some believe there are 10 uncounted questions on the verbal section...

For example, A certain test-taker answers 32 questions in the verbal section correctly ... Unfortunately, he/she has answered most of the 10 experimental(uncounted) questions right and he has got most of mistakes in the real(counted) questions. This would seriously lower his/her score.

The test taker completes the test thinking that he/she answered most of the questions right and is sure to get at least a V30. But the score comes a lot lower than expectations, just because he/she messed up on the real questions.

This is definitely a blow to the theory that asks people to give more time to the first few questions. They say, it is ok to guess the last few as it wont matter much to their score. What if the last few questions which we missed are real(counted) questions ? You would have spent more time on umcounted questions and thus lowered your score by guessing on the REAL questions.

Even GMAC says that each and every question is important. Do not believe if anyone tells you that it is ok to mess with the last few questions.

The best way to deal with this is that concentrate on each and every question and give the same time weightage to every question, no matter which part of the test you are in.
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