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Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)

by Warlock007 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:22 pm
Dear all

recently people who had appeared GMAT after 15th august normally reported disappointments
and too much deviation from their Avg mock test score (as much as 80-90 points)
even I posted my De-Brief https://gmatclub.com/forum/got-destroyed ... 19906.html
i also wrote in this post that SC was entirely different from all prep material 4-5 were short ones

some people must have thought its only a way to gain sympathy and etc etc

but here is the big news for all of you

GMAC has made my Statement Official now!!!!!!!!!
YESSSSSS
you are reading it right SC will no more be as you have done in your prep materials

recently held 4th summit of GMAC officials declare the below major changes
1 No idioms will be Tested anymore
2 more than one answer will be correct
3 SC will be more about meaning

these changes are going to make impact in the following way
1 GMAC indirectly saying that they are going to favor native speakers now as only native speakers can do this without any specific study
2 GMAC declared it after making changes as according to Dr. Larry Rudner (the man behind GMAT) declared by now the pool should have changed completely


So my dear test takers specially non native mates
there is no such SC oriented material in the market or on the web as far s my knowledge goes
for those who are still thinking that i am cooking some story

please check out this link

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

I would like you guys to come out with your strategy to fight with this

best from me
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by sam2304 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:50 pm
Thanks a lot warlock for bringing up the information. Post it in the GMAT Verbal -> Sentence Correction forum as well.

The problem is we got used to applying techniques but now we have to give more importance to which one of the choices makes sense. Instead of practicing rules may be we should spend more time on general reading.
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by akhilsuhag » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:01 am
So how do we deal with this.. I was hoping if experts can lead the way..
Need some serious advice!!
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by Warlock007 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:09 am
sam2304 wrote: The problem is we got used to applying techniques but now we have to give more importance to which one of the choices makes sense. Instead of practicing rules may be we should spend more time on general reading.
you are right dude
but this change will not be so simple as it sounds
please share some material/strategy to fight with this change
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by akhilsuhag » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:08 am
I somehow think these changes might help us non-natives. I know there are no materials for all the meaning thingy but still it might just help.

I personally never have been a grammar person and even on the GMAT I prefer reading for meaning and clarity and logic. I am touching 40 regularly on my practice tests without much of grammar. So maybe it is just for sm1 like me who hates grammar.

But this change will effect people negatively, people who are not too much into reading and stuff. I guess my hours of reading novels while pretending to study will come in handy. Although I would like experts to tell us how to tackle this more logically. Makes me feel secure if you do have rules to check for. Although I am happy they are doing away with idioms, I can't go on mugging up the damn things!!

Lets c what the future holds. Such a sudden change is strange and will throw people off guard. Usually I guess GMAC issues notices in advance b4 the changes take effect. But that is not in our hands.

I hope it works in our favor.
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by AbhiJ » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:46 pm
Dude meaning is already a big part in SC. Don't worry, do your job and stop worrying about uncontrollables. What happens when your score a 760 & your VISA gets rejected or you get an MBA but don't get a job. Chill out.
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by itheenigma » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:24 pm
+1. Agree.
Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill guys!

There's no real pattern change (at least in the conventional way - like how it happens in undergraduate exams in the country) that I can discern.
The GMAT has always tested for meaning and clarity of sentences. Now, it'll be more so. Consider this possibility. What if the exam software picked most SC questions dealing with meaning, and less on idioms on your test day even before this change happened? You have no control over this. Stacey's article was intended to create awareness among test takers. Probably not to create panic or furore...

And I definitely don't believe that this is a plot intended to hijack non-native speakers' chances in the exam. I believe the reason behind this move is purely logical - to make future managers and entrepreneurs (you and I) aware that language cannot be understood formulaically (like how we currently learn SC). It should be treated intuitively and according to context. This is definitely a move in the right direction. You don't want future CEOs to take wrong strategic decisions simply because he/she misunderstood the intended antecedent in the company business plan..(sorry about the overarching illustration :p)

This change is in the same way 'Tone of the passage' types of questions are no longer tested in RCs. Let's not make a big deal about it!

And wait a minute...
2 more than one answer will be correct
??
That's impossible! Where did we come across this information?
Last edited by itheenigma on Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by itheenigma » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:29 pm
itheenigma wrote: And wait a minute...
2 more than one answer will be correct
??
That's impossible! Where did we come across this information?
Oh, you probably mean grammatically correct...
Yeah sure, I have come across such questions in the old GMAT Prep too (among the harder ones). Focus on such questions will be on preserving the meaning of the original sentence as well as understanding that a sentence can be wrong even though it is grammatically correct....

Cheers!
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by anujan007 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:22 pm
No (read as fewer/leftover) questions related to idioms in the actual test seems decent enough. Need to keep watching this space for the experiences of guys taken the test in the next 2-3 weeks.

Nevertheless, I hope the GMAT Prep test bank will also be updated soon.

Cheers. Thanks for updating!
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by bblast » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:11 pm
Hmm, interesting, I am perhaps one person out of a sample of what every 1000000##### test takers who has taken the GMAT thrice this year. My last 2 attempts being in the last two months. Yup, I would kind of agree that I saw as many as 3-4 very short SC's and 1-2 single word underlined SC's. I would also agree that they are testing meaning over grammar, as last week I was badly stuck on an SC where I found 2 of the options absolutely perfect.

But where I wont agree is that this would affect the score more than +/- 20-30 points. They cannot replace all the questions overnight with non-native speaker killing questions. Besides removing the idioms altogether will be a bonus to us. The short SC trick will makes things very difficult however. :evil:
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by Warlock007 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:54 pm
itheenigma wrote: Oh, you probably mean grammatically correct...
Yes i meant more than 1 grammatically ok

itheenigma wrote: I have come across such questions in the old GMAT Prep too (among the harder ones)
this means
now there will be more such questions
anujan007 wrote: Need to keep watching this space for the experiences of guys taken the test in the next 2-3 weeks.

Nevertheless, I hope the GMAT Prep test bank will also be updated soon.

Cheers. Thanks for updating!
1 yes we need to have more and more feedback from recent test takers
2 I doubt GMAT PRep bank will be updated if it does than our goodluck
3 as of now we dont have any material which is according to this new change so recent test takers please consider this
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by Warlock007 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:06 am
bblast wrote:Hmm, interesting, I am perhaps one person out of a sample of what every 1000000##### test takers who has taken the GMAT thrice this year.
First of all Congrats on 710
as you are a recent test taker i am happy to see u here
bblast wrote: 1 I would kind of agree that I saw as many as 3-4 very short SC's and 1-2 single word underlined SC's.
Thanks
2 I would also agree that they are testing meaning over grammar, as last week I was badly stuck on an SC where I found 2 of the options absolutely perfect.
yes thats the problem we might get grammatically ok but meaning wise not ok
3 But where I wont agree is that this would affect the score more than +/- 20-30 points.
dude if it had been only 20/30 point issue GMAC wouldnt have made an annoucement for such a nominal issue
4 They cannot replace all the questions overnight with non-native speaker killing questions.
Read the Link the GMAC said they have already replace almost all questions
5 Besides removing the idioms altogether will be a bonus to us.
if i had a choice over Idioms and meaning issue i would have chosen idioms
6 The short SC trick will makes things very difficult however.
true and thats the source of our worry
we dont have specific materil according to these recent changes too
:evil:
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by e-GMAT » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:26 am
Dear Test Takers,

I can sense a lot of anxiety about the impact of the discussed changes. I understand that these changes are major and can have a major impact on how most of you approach Sentence Correction questions. Based on the comments in this forum and on GMATClub , I also sense some disbelief about the findings from the summit. Therefore, this morning I called Dr. Lawrence Rudner (in charge of psychometrics for GMAC) to clarify the same. In short, MGMAT's comment (Stacy's really) about these changes are accurate and already in effect. Therefore, please do not doubt them.

Dr. Rudner, reiterated the same message that is in MGMAT's blog posting. Firstly, he (Dr. Rudner) wants to make the test fair to everyone and hence GMAC has made a decision to de-emphasize idioms. Note, idioms come more naturally to native test takers since they use them in their day to day conversation. By de-emphasizing idioms, GMAC is making the test more fair to non-native test takers. He also confirmed that this change is already in effect.

Secondly, regarding the emphasis on meaning - According to Dr. Lawrence Rudner, meaning has always been the central part of SC and in his words "people should read and understand the original prompt before going to other answer choice". I mentioned to him that this point is not very clearly stated in the instructions (even though our team here at e-GMAT was able to infer this intent from the instructions and the questions and that is why the central theme of our course is "Meaning"). Based on this, he agreed that he might do the following:

1: Have an official press release from GMAC where these points are clarified. (He said that he will discuss this with his team)
2: Have this (emphasis on the intended meaning conveyed by the original prompt) clearly stated in OG13 (to be released in April 2013)

Should you be anxious?
I understand that any change makes us nervous. However, non-natives should really welcome this change for this is made to put them on an equal footing. This does mean however that for people who primarily focus on grammar and primarily use the 2-3 split method may have to adapt and pay more emphasis on the meaning. Remember, it was never GMAC's intention to make you grammar experts. They always focused on clarity of thought and expression. Other than that, this seems like business as normal.

How can you prepare for this change?
Revise the following questions to better understand what these change means.
1. OG12 (#84, #115)
2. GMAT Verbal Ed 2 (#37, #52)

In addition to the above, there are 13+ questions in e-GMAT SC course that test the same. You may review this link for more details.

e-GMAT customers:
e-GMAT customers should welcome this change, for this re-enforces the emphasis on meaning. The existing e-GMAT process already takes care of this, and you don't need to learn anything new. In addition to the OG questions, there are several questions in the e-GMAT application files that discuss the same concept. Please revise these questions once again. We will also offer a free live session to all our SC customers on Saturday, September 24 at 630 a.m. (Arizona Time) to address any questions that you have. As promised, we are working on adding more such questions to our course.

Thank you and next steps
I would like to thank Stacy for bringing this up to Dr. Rudner and Dr. Rudner to take time out and clarify this matter with me. I hope that we get the official press release soon.

I encourage GMAT aspirants to not overly worry about this. As you can see, you have examples of such sentences in official materials. Revise these questions again and make sure that you pay emphasis on the intended meaning while answering GMAT Sentence Correction questions.

Happy studying,

Rajat Sadana
Founder and CEO
e-GMAT LLC.
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:07 am
Hey guys,

Thanks for the PM invite to join in here, and sorry to take an extra day to do so - I was traveling back from that aforementioned GMAC conference, so the good news is that I think I can clarify what you've heard.

What Dr. Rudner said was certainly not a "from this day forward..." decree of major changes to Sentence Correction. It was much more a status update on the evolution of the question format. For years, the GMAT has been testing logic in SC questions, in which an incorrect answer could be grammatically correct but logically invalid, therefore making it wrong.

He also noted that the GMAT doesn't explicitly test idioms, but again I don't think this is brand new information. He and I had actually talked informally about this at the 2009 GMAC Summit, how testing idioms doesn't really fit the GMAT's emphasis on "higher order thinking", since idioms are by nature "you know it or you don't" and don't encourage or require any problem solving or logical reasoning.

Much of this discussion stemmed from his own admission that, a few years ago, he advocated for the elimination of SC as a question type, feeling that it might give too great an advantage to native English speakers or rely too much on knowledge of English grammar rules and less on problem solving and logical reasoning skills. The authors of the questions were able to convince him otherwise, showing how questions with multiple grammatically-correct answers could require logical abilities to effectively solve. So this evolution toward a greater emphasis on logical meaning may have saved SC as a topic. But keep in mind - this evolution has been ongoing for years!

A couple other items (in bullet-point form) that may interest you surrounding this discussion, all learned (or reinforced) from the GMAT Summit:

-GMAC researches questions thoroughly with a particular concern for any questions that may be culturally biased toward (or against) nationalities or demographic groups. Each "item" (question) contains a continually-updated report that includes %-correctness by ability level, nationality, gender, etc. If the stats look askew among any group, they'll investigate and remove items accordingly.

-Dr. Rudner reiterated that "we're not testing people's knowledge of geometry rules, algebra rules, or grammar rules; we're using those skills as the basis for questions that test higher-order thinking". If you're weak on those rules you'll get questions wrong, but those rules/skills themselves aren't the basis for these questions. It's not a content-based exam - it's a reasoning exam (he even underlined the word "reasoning" several times on his slides about the "quantitative reasoning" and other such sections).

-When items are in the unscored, experimental stage on the exam, they're being researched for relevance, correctness, etc., but also for whether they provide good separation between ability levels. Each question should have an ability level range (say, 65th-68th percentile) below which the probability of a correct answer is quite low and above which the probability of a correct answer is quite high. If a question is valid and correct but does not provide such a separation (if the slope of "probability of correct answer vs. ability level" is not steep but rather more gradual), that question won't be used on the test - but may very well end up in the Official Guide, GMAT Focus, or another official GMAT resource. There are, indeed, questions in the OG that are "official" questions that would never actually appear on a live exam.

-As for Sentence Correction and the continued emphasis on meaning, please note that the GMAT does not anywhere say that the meaning must be consistent with the meaning of the original sentence!!!! I've read a lot on here where people say "D changes the meaning" and that's their justification for eliminating it. Nowhere in the instructions does the GMAT say anything about this. Your goal should be to eliminate illogical meanings and select proper, logical meanings - not to give any preference to choice A. Please, please heed that advice...there is nothing magical about the original meaning.

-One more SC note - while the GMAT does not officially test idioms, idioms may (and will) still appear. After all, it's hard to write too many sentences without encountering a situation in which you have to ask "how do you phrase this?". The key - beware the correct-but-uncommon idiom trap in which you see a "familiar" idiom in an incorrect choice an an "unfamilar but still okay" idiom in a correct choice. Make the main error categories and logical meaning your go-to processes and be warned that idioms make for lousy decision points.
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by David@VeritasPrep » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:29 am
A long- awaited wake-up call to the masses!!

This is really no change at all in sentence correction. It should be a change in the way people approach sentence correction!!!!!

I rarely post in the S C forum because postings so often are focused on the tiniest details of grammar or some minuscule idiom, when there is another very straightforward way to deal with the sentence. It is as if people are more comfortable trying to memorize all possible obscure rules rather than to develop a consistent strategy.

I for one am excited that this will bring students around to the two pillars of sentence correction: logic and grammar and maybe the sentence correction forum will not be tied up in the tiniest obscure idioms.

Brian Galvin is very modest in his post above. He was actually way ahead of the curve on this...Here are few items (articles, posts, and a video) on sentence correction strategy from Brian Galvin and myself that pre-date the recent conference, but that will help you to deal with the "changes" mentioned above. (As Brian states the GMAT has actually been moving in this direction in sentence correction for years now). (Brian's video is from 3 months ago -- Look at the first screen which says "The GMAT rewards logic" "Don't use idioms as primary decision points")

Brian even poked fun at this idea of memorizing your way to a good score, with his VERY humorous article on some fake rules that you have to memorize to do well on sentence correction. If I can find that link I will post it!

I would be very pleased to be part of the revolution that will finally free sentence correction from the tortured grip of idiom memorization.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/07/ ... strategies

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/07/ ... ion-points

https://www.beatthegmat.com/sentence-cor ... tml#314428

https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-truth-ab ... tml#342304

https://www.beatthegmat.com/unlike-water ... tml#323651

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/04/ ... correction
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