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Why you need to do well on last few questions on GMAT?

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Why you need to do well on last few questions on GMAT?

by crejoc » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:44 am
Hello guys , i came across this site, please spend some of your time to read it and let me know , whether it is true or a myth?

https://tranquilstorm.wordpress.com/2007 ... s-on-gmat/

The site mentions about use of powerprep(older) which is replaced by GMATprep, but still we have experimental questions in GMAT. Some experts give guidence..
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by zuleron » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:28 am
Interesting... It makes sense to me.
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by crejoc » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:57 am
please some body discuss this issue..
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by VP_Jim » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:42 pm
I received a PM asking me to respond, so I'll just echo some thoughts I posted on a similar thread.

Ideally, you want to avoid mistakes on ALL parts of the GMAT, not just the first x questions or the last x questions. For that reason, I think that this issue gets a little overanalyzed. Don't overthink it, don't try to game the test; just study and do what you have to do.

As for the last questions, my advice is always to CHOOSE which questions you guess on, rather than simply guessing on the ones that are left when you run out of time. Wait for tough questions to come up and guess on those. Chances are you'd get it wrong anyway, so just guess and move on. This will spread out your wrong answers more, which is much better than having long strings of wrong answers in a row (such as when you run out of time). If you do enough practice tests, you should know about how many guesses you need to make in order to finish on time - aim for fewer than 5.

As for the first 10 questions, my advice is to spend a little extra time on them (maybe 30 seconds) just to get in the groove, settle yourself down, and build some confidence. Under no circumstances should you spend over about 3 minutes on any one question.

Hope this helps!
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by Ian Stewart » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:47 pm
No, that just seems like speculation to me. There's a research report about how experimental questions are used on GMAC's webpage, and according to that, when you sit down for your test, the computer selects a pool of experimental questions for you, and randomly selects where each will appear on your test. That report is quite detailed, and there's no indication there that experimental questions are more likely to be concentrated in the middle of the test, rather than at the start or the end, and I can't see any good reason for them to be.
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by Stacey Koprince » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:57 pm
Received a PM asking me to respond. Agree with Jim and Ian above. It's important to move relatively steadily throughout the entire section and it's important to recognize when you don't know what to do and move on - as Jim says, choose for yourself when to make guesses as opposed to being forced to make guesses at the end.

The only thing I know for sure about the placement of experimentals is that there is some sort of restriction that will not allow you to get 5 experimentals in a row at the end of the test. (Because the GMAC employee who is responsible for the algorithm told me this... it just sort of slipped out in response to a question I was asking about a slide he presented at a conference. Based on his reaction after he said it, I don't think he was supposed to release that info. :))

Anyway, I don't know whether there's a broad restriction, such as "you can't get 5 experimentals in a row anywhere on the test - therefore, you can't get 5 in a row at the end" or whether there's some kind of end-of-test restriction to ensure that some people who mismanage their time don't gain an unfair advantage by having a bunch of experimentals at the end (therefore, no big penalty for having to guess on a bunch). If I had to guess, I'd guess the former (a broad restriction).

The conclusion? Move steadily throughout the test, giving adequate time to each question in order to either (a) answer it, or (b) decide that you don't really know how to answer it, guess (educated, preferably!) and move on.
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by DanaJ » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:45 pm
These so called strategies for boosting your score are really getting out of hand... And the lengths to which some people would go to prove or disprove a theory! Testing the GMATprep software a thousand times is such a waste of time, honestly. I'd actually be extremely suspicious of any conclusions reached by anyone who would rather spend their time dismantling the algorithm than actually studying for the test...

I would understand if this was what you're paid for, if you're hired as a software designer for a major test prep company. Then, indeed, you'd have a reason to do all this! But just going so far as to waste good chunks of your time on developing 100% guaranteed strategies to fool the GMAT is just...

I dunno, some people seem to forget that in the end, THIS IS JUST A TEST. It's one part of your admissions process! I'd pay good money to see "theory-testers" work on the rest of their application: what would they do about admissions essays? about recs? about interviews? Google top 10 words used in an essay!? Use The Sun's guide to a successful interview!? That would be an interesting experiment!

I'm sorry, I seem to be pretty aggressive concerning this topic, and it's not exactly my style. But it does get me worked up to see another so-called magic strategy to beat the test every week... This is my own personal opinion: stop worrying about cheats and 100% guaranteed shortcuts! Instead, do the right thing and start studying for the REAL thing. This is particularly important, because when in b-school you WILL be required to use your quant skills and you WILL have to prove that you can create a competent point of view. If indeed you could trick the GMAT, you may have a really hard time when in school and fall behind...

The only strategy that should really be of concern is the following: try to finish in time and avoid clusters of errors!
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by 4score20 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:25 pm
Just do your best throughout the test. Consistency is important.
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by zuleron » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:38 pm
DanaJ wrote:These so called strategies for boosting your score are really getting out of hand... And the lengths to which some people would go to prove or disprove a theory! Testing the GMATprep software a thousand times is such a waste of time, honestly. I'd actually be extremely suspicious of any conclusions reached by anyone who would rather spend their time dismantling the algorithm than actually studying for the test...

I would understand if this was what you're paid for, if you're hired as a software designer for a major test prep company. Then, indeed, you'd have a reason to do all this! But just going so far as to waste good chunks of your time on developing 100% guaranteed strategies to fool the GMAT is just...

I dunno, some people seem to forget that in the end, THIS IS JUST A TEST. It's one part of your admissions process! I'd pay good money to see "theory-testers" work on the rest of their application: what would they do about admissions essays? about recs? about interviews? Google top 10 words used in an essay!? Use The Sun's guide to a successful interview!? That would be an interesting experiment!

I'm sorry, I seem to be pretty aggressive concerning this topic, and it's not exactly my style. But it does get me worked up to see another so-called magic strategy to beat the test every week... This is my own personal opinion: stop worrying about cheats and 100% guaranteed shortcuts! Instead, do the right thing and start studying for the REAL thing. This is particularly important, because when in b-school you WILL be required to use your quant skills and you WILL have to prove that you can create a competent point of view. If indeed you could trick the GMAT, you may have a really hard time when in school and fall behind...

The only strategy that should really be of concern is the following: try to finish in time and avoid clusters of errors!
I don't think anyone is trying to game the test. But you must admit that a 680 looks different from a 700... if one bit of info can help me get those extra 20 points or, even better, prevent me from falling to 680 from 700, then I WANT to know it.

I believe the saying is "information is power" or "knowledge is power". So this nitpicking how the test works reflects a positive trait... I want to know everything I can about my opponent. Of course you have to do the heavy lifting but I think this trait will serve one well, if not in b-school, then surely in the boardroom...
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by crejoc » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:37 pm
DanaJ wrote:These so called strategies for boosting your score are really getting out of hand... And the lengths to which some people would go to prove or disprove a theory! Testing the GMATprep software a thousand times is such a waste of time, honestly. I'd actually be extremely suspicious of any conclusions reached by anyone who would rather spend their time dismantling the algorithm than actually studying for the test...

I would understand if this was what you're paid for, if you're hired as a software designer for a major test prep company. Then, indeed, you'd have a reason to do all this! But just going so far as to waste good chunks of your time on developing 100% guaranteed strategies to fool the GMAT is just...

I dunno, some people seem to forget that in the end, THIS IS JUST A TEST. It's one part of your admissions process! I'd pay good money to see "theory-testers" work on the rest of their application: what would they do about admissions essays? about recs? about interviews? Google top 10 words used in an essay!? Use The Sun's guide to a successful interview!? That would be an interesting experiment!

I'm sorry, I seem to be pretty aggressive concerning this topic, and it's not exactly my style. But it does get me worked up to see another so-called magic strategy to beat the test every week... This is my own personal opinion: stop worrying about cheats and 100% guaranteed shortcuts! Instead, do the right thing and start studying for the REAL thing. This is particularly important, because when in b-school you WILL be required to use your quant skills and you WILL have to prove that you can create a competent point of view. If indeed you could trick the GMAT, you may have a really hard time when in school and fall behind...

The only strategy that should really be of concern is the following: try to finish in time and avoid clusters of errors!
It is not a cheat or trick .. Most of here recommends to do well in first 10 questions, does that mean a cheat or trick.. if u so this is a cheat , then every strategy u adapt is a cheat... this is all about allocation of time , i havent read about the last 5 questions anywhere , most discuss about the first 10 questions.. anyway this makes a lot of sense, that last 5 questions may not be experimental because , if they are and if we mismanage our time and guess them, we esape from being penalized for it. I dont think any trick in it. If u say so , guessing a hard one and not spending the time on a single problem is also a trick.. i accept as you say hard work, practice, finishing in time and avoiding errors are part of it and moreover the way of approach is also as important as others. I dont know what made you so aggressive...
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by crejoc » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:46 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to respond. Agree with Jim and Ian above. It's important to move relatively steadily throughout the entire section and it's important to recognize when you don't know what to do and move on - as Jim says, choose for yourself when to make guesses as opposed to being forced to make guesses at the end.

The only thing I know for sure about the placement of experimentals is that there is some sort of restriction that will not allow you to get 5 experimentals in a row at the end of the test. (Because the GMAC employee who is responsible for the algorithm told me this... it just sort of slipped out in response to a question I was asking about a slide he presented at a conference. Based on his reaction after he said it, I don't think he was supposed to release that info. :))

Anyway, I don't know whether there's a broad restriction, such as "you can't get 5 experimentals in a row anywhere on the test - therefore, you can't get 5 in a row at the end" or whether there's some kind of end-of-test restriction to ensure that some people who mismanage their time don't gain an unfair advantage by having a bunch of experimentals at the end (therefore, no big penalty for having to guess on a bunch). If I had to guess, I'd guess the former (a broad restriction).

The conclusion? Move steadily throughout the test, giving adequate time to each question in order to either (a) answer it, or (b) decide that you don't really know how to answer it, guess (educated, preferably!) and move on.
Thanks a lot Stacey for your insight .. i really laughed out when u said about the gmac employee's slip of the tongue.. your conclusion is helpful. thank you..
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by crejoc » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:52 pm
Thanks Ian and Jim for your insights.. It will be really helpful..
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by blitz28 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:59 pm
I completely agree with crejoc and Zuleron.

I have no idea why DanaJ should be responding in such strong words about someone's assessment of the test. Everyone in the forum has a right of opinion and the way they would want to approach the test. calling it tricks and shady words as those, should not be coming from a moderator!
People do go all lengths to figure out what works for the test and what doesnt, and as said earlier this nitpicking may be a beneficial point for someone. Why stress on first 10, and why not on last 5. Someone has to be really into the test to be looking at all such nuances. I think the so called "software enginnering" into the test maybe someone's way of approaching it. why critique it so negatively
Thanks to Stacy and Ian for such balanced point of views. They really make sense, of course at the end of all the score really is is a factor of your effort .
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by DanaJ » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:07 am
blitz28 wrote:Everyone in the forum has a right of opinion and the way they would want to approach the test. calling it tricks and shady words as those, should not be coming from a moderator!
I of course agree that everyone has a right to an opinion, and I shared mine. I know I was slightly more aggressive in my last post and I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone, but it's just because I'm trying to make what I consider a valid point: worrying too much about the algorithm is not the best approach, IMHO (and overtesting the GMATprep software is one way of doing that). Instead, carefully crafting a study plan and sticking to it will likely yield much better results.

There are, of course, a few strategic moves that can get you in the right direction, but nothing more than that. As Ian has pointed out, straying to far away from common knowledge is speculation most of the time. And who knows? Everyone is prone to error, so even an evaluation made by a professional can sometimes be flawed (as can my own, evidently). I remember that post of someone who stated that "too high of a score might get you in trouble with the admissions committee". The article was actually written by a company that specialized in admissions consulting, if I recall correctly. Of course, the statement was hastily dismissed by most experts and regular forum members alike...

Don't get me wrong: I don't think it's not OK to discuss such strategies; in the end, you might get some competent input about this and that, which can help you avoid "trap strategies". But as I've said: I PERSONALLY (and emphasize that word) believe that you're better off studying types of questions than researching and evaluating various claims about the algorithm.
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by zuleron » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:37 am
DanaJ wrote:
Don't get me wrong: I don't think it's not OK to discuss such strategies; in the end, you might get some competent input about this and that, which can help you avoid "trap strategies". But as I've said: I PERSONALLY (and emphasize that word) believe that you're better off studying types of questions than researching and evaluating various claims about the algorithm.
Your point is well taken, but there is so much disinformation out there and as a lawyer, I have found that the best way to get to the truth (or as close to the truth as possible) is to spark a debate and get a range of people to weigh in, and then triangulate the truth from the different opinions.

I have learned a great deal from the various threads on the algorithm and strategies.

1) The bisggest no-no is strings of incorrect answers.

2) The first 10 questions are only more important to the extent that doing poorly in the first 10 leaves you with fewer questions to make up for the poor start. So you might want to spend more time on the 1st 10.

3) On the other hand, spending too much time on the 1st 10 increases your risk of gettting strings of incorrect answers later on in the test as you get pressed for time. So you probably don't want to spend too much time on the 1st 10. And if you do you are going to have to guess on some questions.

4) If you are going to guess on 5 questions (say because you spent more time on the 1st 10), it is better that they be Q12, 18, 23, 29, 35 than Q33-37 because you avoid getting strings of wrong answers.

5) experimental questions: I'm still not sure. From what has been said I think you couldn't get 5 experimentals in a row anywhere. The location of the experimental is less important to me than the difficulty of the experimental. If the computer preselects experimentals without knowing how well you will score, then presumably you could be doing really well and see a basic question... or be tanking and randomly see a super hard question. This seems strange. It would make more sense if the computer tailored the experimentals to your level as you take the test.
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