is Manhattan GMAT CATs harder than GMAT Prep?

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Tommy Wallach: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 451; Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:58 amFollowed by: 120 members; Location: New York City; Thanked: 188 times; GMAT Score:770

by Tommy Wallach » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:20 pm

Hey All,

As someone said, this question definitely comes up all the time, but I just figured I'd weigh in by saying almost nothing: a million people have a million different opinions on this subject. I've definitely heard that our tests feel like they have an extra step compared to others; I've also heard people complain that on test day, they found the GMAT questions much harder than the ones they saw on our tests. I've heard our CR is too easy and our SC is too hard, and vice-versa.

But here's what I can say for sure: all of us companies out here in the GMAT space are working hard to constantly get our tests as close to the real thing as possible. If you're looking for the most honest assessment of where you are, your safest bet will usually be GMATPrep because...hey...they're the guys who make the test! But from a studying standpoint, all of the major companies (you can do your own research to work out who those are!) are putting good tests out there that are going to help you get better. A few cosmetic differences in tone, difficulty, or wording shouldn't make an enormous difference anyway.

Hope that helps!

-t

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ManhattanGMAT

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vomhorizon: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 194; Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pmFollowed by: 8 members; Location: India; Thanked: 26 times; GMAT Score:730

by vomhorizon » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:42 pm

By harder i meant "lengthier"...Given unlimited time most people taking either the GMAT PREP or the MGMAT CAT will most likely deliver similar scores....However the greater computation and no. of steps etc required make them tougher given the 75 minutes deadline. I think it is a great thing as it pushes one to "hurry" and/or learn shortcut techniques..Canadasms in his legendary debreif called it "training at altitude" and i fully agree...In my first 25 questions (all but the first one were 700-800 level questions) i had only 6-7 mistakes ..but then from 26 - 37 i had to randomly guess and got 7 wrong ....

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful." - Eric Thomas

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Tommy Wallach: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 451; Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:58 amFollowed by: 120 members; Location: New York City; Thanked: 188 times; GMAT Score:770

by Tommy Wallach » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Hey Vom,

Well, certainly glad you like the questions! For what it's worth, if you're regularly running questions in the high 700s, it's pretty normal to be running out of time at the end. I'm not entirely convinced that's more pronounced on our questions than on the real test. The most common error on the GMAT is running over time on the first 25-30 questions, then being really rushed on the final handful. So definitely good to conquer that in your training before game day!

-t

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vomhorizon: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 194; Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pmFollowed by: 8 members; Location: India; Thanked: 26 times; GMAT Score:730

by vomhorizon » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:09 am

I took another MGMAT CAT today (CAT II) and scored the same. Did manage to finish the quant section although i was going much much faster then i would have liked. Scored a Q42, and did not confirm the last answer so i guess that did not count. My problem is timing rather then the content, and as far as weaker areas in content, MGMAT Geometry has always been a week aspect for me (Even in the MGMAT Adv. Quant book) even though in my GMAT PREP CAT's i did not score poorly in Geometry but somehow the geometry by MGMAT always seems harder and more time consuming. Verbal, i got all the CR questions correct, made some silly mistakes in SC and somehow got only 50% correct in RC ( GMAT prep areas of weakness actually became my strengths in MGMAT RC and GMAT prep Strengths became my weakness

) .. Overall even though i finished the verbal section full 6.5 minutes early i scored exactly the same...

Any good article regarding how to analyze and prep after the CAT? I have now gone from a Q40 to a Q42 in about four days, and now need to concentrate on getting my quant score to above 45 in the MGMAT test. I have scored 45 and 47 on GMAT PREP tests and am looking to hit the 80th percentile in quant. I also think that the brutal quant section on these tests is taking some of the steam off from my verbal as during my analysis i have always felt that i should have crossed the 90th percentile barrier given the level of questions..

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful." - Eric Thomas

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Tommy Wallach: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 451; Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:58 amFollowed by: 120 members; Location: New York City; Thanked: 188 times; GMAT Score:770

by Tommy Wallach » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:08 pm

So glad you asked!

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ce-tests/

This should help you a bit!

One thing I always tell my students to keep in mind: make sure you aren't underpreparing on the verbal side and overpreparing on the quant side. I can't tell you how many students get so obsessed with getting their quant from 42 to 46, doing hours of practice problems, and on test day, they get a solid 46-47 on quant, but their verbal drops to a 39 or 38, and now they're back to the drawing board. Make sure you're not simply calling any SC mistake a "silly" one. There aren't really silly mistakes on sentence correction. There are on quant (2+3=8). On verbal, if you picked it, then you picked it! So make sure you're unpacking what attracted you to that wrong answer as much as you can, so as to avoid making it again.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-t

P.S. I agree about Geometry...though I don't know whether it's just us or the test. I'll tell you right now that I find high 700s Geometry questions the single hardest thing on the whole test!

Tommy Wallach, Company Expert
ManhattanGMAT

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vomhorizon: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 194; Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pmFollowed by: 8 members; Location: India; Thanked: 26 times; GMAT Score:730

by vomhorizon » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:23 pm

Tommy Wallach wrote:So glad you asked!

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ce-tests/

This should help you a bit!

One thing I always tell my students to keep in mind: make sure you aren't underpreparing on the verbal side and overpreparing on the quant side. I can't tell you how many students get so obsessed with getting their quant from 42 to 46, doing hours of practice problems, and on test day, they get a solid 46-47 on quant, but their verbal drops to a 39 or 38, and now they're back to the drawing board. Make sure you're not simply calling any SC mistake a "silly" one. There aren't really silly mistakes on sentence correction. There are on quant (2+3=8). On verbal, if you picked it, then you picked it! So make sure you're unpacking what attracted you to that wrong answer as much as you can, so as to avoid making it again.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-t

P.S. I agree about Geometry...though I don't know whether it's just us or the test. I'll tell you right now that I find high 700s Geometry questions the single hardest thing on the whole test!

Thanks for the help...I am not going to neglect Verbal, infact i am spending the next 2-3 days to re-do the areas in SC that MGMAT CAT showed me week (modifiers, Verbs & Meaning)..My plan for the last 15-20 days of prep right before the TEST was to tackle verbal strategy (2 days with the MGMAT Guide, 2 Days with my CR notes and 1 day with MGMAT RC Strategy) .. The rest of the time was doing practice from the OG (Verbal review) which i have saved right for the end since everyone has advised me to save some for "official practice" right at the end...

I think what is needed at the moment (for me) is to learn how to speed things up w/o loosing accuracy and to learn to guess and move on...I am picking up the MGMAT Adv. Quant again now to re - do the strategy aspect of it, and then i will focus on practicing areas which the CAT's have shown me weak (Geometry, Inequalities, rates/work). I'll probably buy a few question packs from MGMAT for more "targeted practice"..What i am afraid and nervous about is that my quant level has actually come down although many are of the opinion that MGMAT CAT's (atleast the first few) make you feel like that especially if you come from the back of a few GMAT PREP tests...

P.s - Regarding Geometry, i find my accuracy is low due to the timing aspect .. I have always struggled to do geometry from MGMAT sources within the 2 minute limit (usually take 3+) ... My problem is that i need to re draw the diagram on my scratch pad before i begin the answer and that takes me some time.. With GMAT PREP geometry my accuracy was much better in geometry but even their i was taking more time than i should have..

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful." - Eric Thomas

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vomhorizon: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 194; Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pmFollowed by: 8 members; Location: India; Thanked: 26 times; GMAT Score:730

by vomhorizon » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:28 pm

vomhorizon wrote:
Tommy Wallach wrote:So glad you asked!

https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ce-tests/

This should help you a bit!

One thing I always tell my students to keep in mind: make sure you aren't underpreparing on the verbal side and overpreparing on the quant side. I can't tell you how many students get so obsessed with getting their quant from 42 to 46, doing hours of practice problems, and on test day, they get a solid 46-47 on quant, but their verbal drops to a 39 or 38, and now they're back to the drawing board. Make sure you're not simply calling any SC mistake a "silly" one. There aren't really silly mistakes on sentence correction. There are on quant (2+3=8). On verbal, if you picked it, then you picked it! So make sure you're unpacking what attracted you to that wrong answer as much as you can, so as to avoid making it again.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-t

P.S. I agree about Geometry...though I don't know whether it's just us or the test. I'll tell you right now that I find high 700s Geometry questions the single hardest thing on the whole test!
Thanks for the help...I am not going to neglect Verbal, infact i am spending the next 2-3 days to re-do the areas in SC that MGMAT CAT showed me week (modifiers, Verbs & Meaning)..My plan for the last 15-20 days of prep right before the TEST was to tackle verbal strategy (2 days with the MGMAT Guide, 2 Days with my CR notes and 1 day with MGMAT RC Strategy) .. The rest of the time was doing practice from the OG (Verbal review) which i have saved right for the end since everyone has advised me to save some for "official practice" right at the end...

I think what is needed at the moment (for me) is to learn how to speed things up w/o loosing accuracy and to learn to guess and move on...I am picking up the MGMAT Adv. Quant again now to re - do the strategy aspect of it, and then i will focus on practicing areas which the CAT's have shown me weak (Geometry, Inequalities, rates/work). I'll probably buy a few question packs from MGMAT for more "targeted practice"..What i am afraid and nervous about is that my quant level has actually come down although many are of the opinion that MGMAT CAT's (atleast the first few) make you feel like that especially if you come from the back of a few GMAT PREP tests...

P.s - Regarding Geometry, i find my accuracy is low due to the timing aspect .. I have always struggled to do geometry from MGMAT sources within the 2 minute limit (usually take 3+) ... My problem is that i need to re draw the diagram on my scratch pad before i begin the answer and that takes me some time.. With GMAT PREP geometry my accuracy was much better in geometry but even their i was taking more time than i should have..

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful." - Eric Thomas

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brianlange77: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 417; Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:49 pmFollowed by: 93 members; Location: Chapel Hill, NC; Thanked: 132 times; GMAT Score:750

by brianlange77 » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:31 pm

vomhorizon wrote:I took another MGMAT CAT today (CAT II) and scored the same. Did manage to finish the quant section although i was going much much faster then i would have liked. Scored a Q42, and did not confirm the last answer so i guess that did not count. My problem is timing rather then the content, and as far as weaker areas in content, MGMAT Geometry has always been a week aspect for me (Even in the MGMAT Adv. Quant book) even though in my GMAT PREP CAT's i did not score poorly in Geometry but somehow the geometry by MGMAT always seems harder and more time consuming. Verbal, i got all the CR questions correct, made some silly mistakes in SC and somehow got only 50% correct in RC ( GMAT prep areas of weakness actually became my strengths in MGMAT RC and GMAT prep Strengths became my weakness ) .. Overall even though i finished the verbal section full 6.5 minutes early i scored exactly the same...

Any good article regarding how to analyze and prep after the CAT? I have now gone from a Q40 to a Q42 in about four days, and now need to concentrate on getting my quant score to above 45 in the MGMAT test. I have scored 45 and 47 on GMAT PREP tests and am looking to hit the 80th percentile in quant. I also think that the brutal quant section on these tests is taking some of the steam off from my verbal as during my analysis i have always felt that i should have crossed the 90th percentile barrier given the level of questions..

Vom -- here's an article you may find helpful -- https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ice-tests/ -- all with suggestions about what to do once you've got a test in-hand. And this -- https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... ent-wrong/ -- which can help with "what went wrong?"

That said, I think it's also about mindset -- too often people get caught up in "Well, once I score an "X" on a practice exam, I am ready." Really? Imagine that you are going on a 720 mile road-trip... what's more important, knowing that the car has undergone a 720-mile roadtrip previously... or that you know how to fix the car when its water pump breaks 360-miles in? I'd rather know everything I need to do, and feel confident for that reason, than say, "Oh... well, my car has done a similar drive in a practice situation." Maybe a bit esoteric -- but do you get what I'm implying here?

-Brian

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swathi8388: Junior | Next Rank: 30 Posts; Posts: 18; Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:17 am; Thanked: 1 times

by swathi8388 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:05 pm

MGMAT test questions are not tough to solve, they just take too much time to solve,because of which it becomes difficult to finish the quant portion.When one does OG throughly and is used to solving official problems..manhattan questions seem a little off.

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melguy: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 335; Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 pmFollowed by: 2 members; Location: Australia / India; Thanked: 37 times

by melguy » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:06 am

May be its just me - I find MGMAT CAT lot easier than Official CAT and almost always score 50 points more in MGMAT. I am very curious myself as to why it happens. The best reason I can come up with is that the official CAT has a very dull, boring and ugly GUI.

If the Official interface were like MGMAT or Veritas prep it would have automatically increased my score.

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vomhorizon: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 194; Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pmFollowed by: 8 members; Location: India; Thanked: 26 times; GMAT Score:730

by vomhorizon » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:13 am

From my experience of having taken MGMAT CAT's (all the CAT's twice ) and written the GMAT on two occassions, I can say that MGMAT Quant is way harder, involves more calculations, and better time-management & strategic guessing. Having said that, I find that the overall score on the quant section is fairly close to the actual GMAT - so it seems MGMAT is more tolerant towards wrong answers. I was scoring around 47 and 48 (Q) and always gave myself 3 minutes extra on the section . I scored a Q48 on the actual GMAT and finished without having to guess any questions. In the verbal section, i found the SC to be tough, but different from that on GMAT PREP and the actual test. I struggled to cross the 40 mark on MGMAT and scored a V35 , a week before my second attempt. I ended up with a V42 on the actual test.

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful." - Eric Thomas

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pirimidin: Newbie | Next Rank: 10 Posts; Posts: 3; Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:33 pm

by pirimidin » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:44 am

I got 760 & 770 on GMAT preps but less than 600 on MGMAT. I am planning to re-take the GMAT this month. Thus, I am feeling a little bit confused and demotivated after taking MGMAT tests.The same applies to my friend, who got 650 on MGMAT but actually scored 760 (49Q-44V) on the actual test.

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confused13: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 97; Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:29 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 8 times

by confused13 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:21 am

Quant: MGMAT Quant is too difficult. GMAT is easier on that.
Verbal: MGMAT Verbal is too easy, especially if you use their prep material on that. SC & CR is like additional exercise to the book.

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Matt@VeritasPrep: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 2630; Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:32 pmFollowed by: 119 members; Location: East Bay all the way; Thanked: 625 times; GMAT Score:780

by Matt@VeritasPrep » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:50 pm

An outsider's perspective:

Mathwise, Manhattan's tests may feel harder than the real thing because their questions ask more of you than the real one does, at least mathematically; the actual test is mostly simple stuff designed to lull you into making complacent mistakes -- after all, you're going to B-school, so you might end up in finance or accounting, where staying awake is important -- whereas Manhattan's stuff is openly challenging and forces you to think.

Verbalwise, the tests are quite similar, but Manhattan's questions are (again) asked in good faith: challenging but fair, much like the CR/RC on the LSAT. The GMAC's harder questions, on the other hand, are often bogus: arbitrary SC questions with five bad answers, CR questions where all the answers require major assumptions and you're supposed to guess which assumption is less outrageous, etc.

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