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Halley’s comet

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Halley’s comet

by GmatKiss » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:36 am
In its most recent approach, the comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position, some 25 degrees above the horizon, that Halley's comet will pass the next time it appears.

(A) that Halley's comet will pass
(B) that Halley's comet is to be passing
(C) as Halley's comet
(D) as will Halley's comet
(E) as Halley's comet will do
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by Vanshika21 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:59 am
Is OA - D? I am a bit confused between D and E.
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by sam2304 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:28 am
IMO D.

'do' in E is redundant. 'will' does the same job.

Moreover usage of 'do' is wrong here.
I solve as you do
I solved as you did
In E 'do' is in present tense and referring to 'passed', which is past tense - Wrong.
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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:41 am
GmatKiss wrote:In its most recent approach, the comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position, some 25 degrees above the horizon, that Halley's comet will pass the next time it appears.

(A) that Halley's comet will pass
(B) that Halley's comet is to be passing
(C) as Halley's comet
(D) as will Halley's comet
(E) as Halley's comet will do
In A, the same position THAT...Halley's comet WILL PASS implies that Halley's comet WILL PASS THE SAME POSITION. The intended meaning of the sentence is that Halley's comet will pass IN the same position (and AT the same distance from Earth) as the comet Crommelin passed. Eliminate A.

Similar issue in B. Eliminate B.

In C, the same position as Halley's comet seems to compare the POSITION IN WHICH THE COMET CROMMELIN PASSED to THE POSITION OF HALLEY'S COMET. The intended meaning of the sentence is to compare not the positions but the ACTIONS: how the comet Crommelin PASSED the earth to how Halley's comet WILL PASS the earth. Eliminate C.

In E, do is unnecessary: the helping verb will is sufficient on its own to convey the comparison between how the Crommelin comet passed and how Halley's comet will [pass]. For more on this issue, please see my post below. Eliminate E.

The correct answer is D.

D employs ellipsis: the omission of words whose presence in understood.
In D, the verb pass is omitted, but its presence is implied by the helping verb will:

The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position...as Halley's comet will PASS the next time it appears.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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by penguinfoot » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:58 am
First of all, (D) and (E) both are correct, strictly speaking !
Active vs Passive - What would you prefer ?

Secondly :
-> Active? (D) You are in right track - so the answer is correct - Go kick ass, GMAT !

-> Passive? (E) You need to review your Sc skills ... Read MGMAT SC again !

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by vikram4689 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:54 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote: In E, do (present) is being used to stand in for passed (past). When do/did is used to stand in for a preceding verb, the tenses of the two verbs should be the same. Eliminate E.
Hi Mitch,
Ron mentioned that
Tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager. (note that "did" doesn't have to have the same tense as the action verb)
at https://www.beatthegmat.com/the-value-of ... 86344.html

both of above quotes seems contradictory, please help me understand
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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:05 am
vikram4689 wrote: Tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager. (note that "did" doesn't have to have the same tense as the action verb)

please help me understand
Generally, do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.

Incorrect: John has eaten more cookies than Mary has done.
Correct: John has eaten more cookies than Mary HAS.

Incorrect: Mary walked a greater distance today than she will do tomorrow.
Correct: Mary walked a greater distance today than she WILL tomorrow.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:12 am
In E, isn't "do" stand for "pass" as "did" stands for "eats" in Tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager

In D, since there is no verb in option use of ellipses and hence repetition of verb "pass" is clear but Option E already has verb "do" so why we are we considering ellipses here and saying "will do pass"
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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:54 pm
vikram4689 wrote:In E, isn't "do" stand for "pass" as "did" stands for "eats" in Tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager

In D, since there is no verb in option use of ellipses and hence repetition of verb "pass" is clear but Option E already has verb "do" so why we are we considering ellipses here and saying "will do pass"
In standard American English, we typically don't use do/did/done to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will. (In contrast, I often hear British speakers say helping verb + do/did/done). For more on this issue, please see my second post above, to which I've added some examples.
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by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:56 pm
So according to following quote it is clear that we were adding "pass" to option E because it contains helping verb has/have/will and therefore "do" in E cannot stand for "pass" BUT then WHAT DOES "DO" refer to, it must refer to something otherwise sentence has grammatical error
Generally, do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will.
Also when i add "pass" to option D to account for ellipses sentence feels awkward
The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position as will PASS Halley's comet the next time it appears.... Is it correct shouldn't it be Halley's comet will pass


ALSO following quote is contradictory to other statements
In E, do (present) is being used to stand in for passed (past). When do/did is used to stand in for a preceding verb, the tenses of the two verbs should be the same. Eliminate E.
as "do/did" should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have/will AND when helping verbs are NOT present then tenses of both the verbs may NOT be same as evident from Tanya eats more slowly than she did when she was a teenager
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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:22 pm
=
vikram4689 wrote:So according to following quote it is clear that we were adding "pass" to option E because it contains helping verb has/have/will and therefore "do" in E cannot stand for "pass" BUT when i add "pass" to option D to account for ellipses sentence feels awkward
The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position as will PASS Halley's comet the next time it appears.
If we include the omitted words, D would read as follows:

The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position as will Halley's comet PASS THE EARTH the next time it appears.
In E, do (present) is being used to stand in for passed (past). When do/did is used to stand in for a preceding verb, the tenses of the two verbs should be the same. Eliminate E.
I misspoke: when do/did is used to replace a verb, the two verbs must be parallel in FORM. It would be incorrect, for example, to say that John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary DID. This could be one reason that do (in E) doesn't work: PASSED and WILL PASS are not parallel forms. Whereas the latter construction requires a helping verb, the former does not.
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by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:46 pm
The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position as will Halley's comet PASS THE EARTH the next time it appears.
Isn't this strange, can we have subject of a clause in between the helping verb and main verb


In E, WHAT DOES "DO" refer to, it must refer to something otherwise sentence has much bigger grammatical error than we are discussing :)


1. when do/did is used to replace a verb, the two verbs must be parallel in FORM.
2. do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will
According to above statements, Whenever we require a helping verb we cannot use do/did/done and MUST repeat same verb (may in different verb tense). Therefore following are CORRECT, do you agree
John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD (or HAD RUN)
John IS RUNNING as fast as Mary RAN (or DID) during last Olympics
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by vikram4689 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:06 am
Mitch,
please reply
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by GMATGuruNY » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:58 am
The comet Crommelin passed the Earth at about the same distance and in about the same position as will Halley's comet PASS THE EARTH the next time it appears.

Isn't this strange, can we have subject of a clause in between the helping verb and main verb
It's fine. Another example:

Comparison: Just as Mary will be running in the next race, so too will John.
Implied meaning: Just as Mary will be running in the next race, so too will John [be running in the next race].
Note that the implied meaning positions John (subject) between will and be running.
In E, WHAT DOES "DO" refer to, it must refer to something otherwise sentence has much bigger grammatical error than we are discussing :)[


In E, do seems to be standing in for pass, but -- as I noted above -- the use of do is improper here. The helping verb will is sufficient on its own to stand in for will pass.
1. when do/did is used to replace a verb, the two verbs must be parallel in FORM.
2. do/did/done should not be used to replace an antecedent verb when the comparison includes a helping verb such as has/have or will
According to above statements, Whenever we require a helping verb we cannot use do/did/done and MUST repeat same verb (may in different verb tense). Therefore following are CORRECT, do you agree

John WAS RUNNING as fast as Mary HAD (or HAD RUN)
John IS RUNNING as fast as Mary RAN (or DID) during last Olympics


Ellipsis can be used to compare two verbs that are parallel in form:
Mary was running faster than John.
Mary was running faster than John was.
Implied comparison: Mary was running faster than John {was running].

Do/did can stand in for an antecedent verb that is parallel in form:
The current mayor governs better than the preceding mayor did.
Implied meaning: The current mayor governs better than the preceding mayor governed.

Avoid ellipsis and do/did when the verbs being compared are NOT parallel in form.

Mary was running faster than she HAD ever RUN before.
Since the two verb forms are different, we use the full version of the second verb.
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by vikram4689 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:46 am
Thanks Mitch, in view of following quote i have one doubt how
Mary walked a greater distance today than she WILL tomorrow is CORRECT since VERB forms (walked & walk) are NOT PARALLEL. Shouldn't it be Mary walked a greater distance today than she WILL WALK tomorrow
Ellipsis can be used to compare two verbs that are parallel in form:
Mary was running faster than John.
Mary was running faster than John was.
Implied comparison: Mary was running faster than John {was running].

Mary was running faster than she HAD ever RUN before.
Since the two verb forms are different, we use the full version of the second verb.
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