Hi Stacy,
All the questions you have asked are spot on. Guru-G, I was planning to ask you a subset of those questions myself this weekend. Bottom line, before you write the exam this time, what stacy says is correct - you need to figure out your weak area and fix. Otherwise writing the exam will yield the same results ....

Do reply to her questions - I will be reading your response as well!

TAke care,
-ngufo

mals24 wrote:Guru G you have a great fighting spirit really appreciate that. Being a non-native speaker I know how difficult it is to improve the verbal score.
Youll have to HAVE TO work on those grammar fundamentals. To improve your SC I would recommend you use the high school grammar book published by Wren and Martin. (Its a masterpiece)

https://www.amazon.com/High-School-Engli ... D1WCXAJFYN

It covers each and every grammar topic covered in GMAT SC and it has chapters on different types of errors such as SV agreement, modifiers etc. Spend 1 month on this book and then do the new MGMAT SC Guide and youll see a significant improvement in your SC accuracy.

For CR, since youve already dont the Powerscore CR Bible, Id also suggest you solve some LSAT CR, first in untimed and then when you get the hang of them try doing them under timed conditions. They are a great great practice and GMAT CRs will look like a walk in the clouds after youve mastered them.

Im re-quoting a tip from this guy who improved his verbal score from 23->40 I think youll find it useful. (I hope he wouldnt mind me posting it here)

OK well let me tell you what I did different to go from V 23 on my first GMAT to V 40 on my second. Keep in mind I think I could've done a lot better too, I had 15 mins for last 2 questions so kinda fucked up on my time management.


This time I realized that people are simply lazy and Smile. Period. Everyone loves practicing SC and sometimes CR but NEVER RC. That's what I did different this time, I k!IIed myself doing CR and RC, I overdid it almost.

When you're doing RC and CR when you're practicing, go through and eliminate every wrong answer. Give a convincing story for why each is wrong. Do this instead of simply finding a good fit and moving on. On test day it will make things a lot easier.

For CR and RC I found that doing LSAT material really helps. RC on the LSAT are very, VERY long and full of info so you'll be relieved when you get back on the GMAT train.

OH BTW! when I did my verbal I had enough time to read every passage twice, why? because I had gotten used to insanely long LSAT passages.

And of course do not forget to read Stacey Koprince and Ron Purewal's legendary SC explanations posted in this forum. Definitely go through them as well.
Just to add a verbal tip:

While doing a SC question ALWAYS look out for a grammatical (or style) error while eliminating an option. Dont just strike out an option just because it 'doesnt sound right' This method is time consuming initially but itll train your mind to think in the right direction and also itll make your SC posts in this forum look much cooler (option A is incorrect because it violates the appositives rule )

Use the same rule for CR and RC. Eliminate an option only if you have a valid reason to eliminate it not because 'I feel its incorrect'.

So my friend good luck with your prep and go kill that monster. Itll be a tough fight ahead but then a tough competition is what makes a fight more interesting and the win more sweeter.

Thankyou very much Mals24,
I will try to follow most of ur advise as all of these are vey important if u really want to increase ur verbal scale score. Yes even I know the value of doing RC, CR from LSAT book. Those can be very helpful as I have tried RC from those book.
Also thanks fo posting the comments from other folk .. even they were very useful.
I hope soon you will definately hear fom me my story of 'Killing this Monster' I know I can and I will!!!

Jatinder wrote:Well, your profile and score matches with mine:
5Y+ exp, IT background, Given GMAT 5 times, last 3 scores were 610, 600 and 620...

But i would write the scary devil again and this time i will scare it.

My personal advice:


1)relax for 2-3 weeks, don't touch GMAT, read lot of quality english.
2)The gap between your next exam date and the current one should atleast be 2-3 months.
3) you don't seem to have a problem with accuracy(again my case), i guess, your test taking stratergy is not good. Improve your test taking stratergy...How? ..this you have to figure out.
Before taking GMAT again, make sure tto get 730+ in standardised tests(manhatten, GMATprep)
4) you can definetely do it.

Best of Luck.

Jatinder,

Your score are nothing but replica of mine profile and my score.. Yes, I am trying to take break for couple of day from the GMAT and after a week or so again I will gear for the next marathon.. I know I am not a good test taker.. but I also know given most of the GMAT question I can solve correctly if some give me no time limit.. so the factor I need to work hard on are : Efficiency, Accuracy within a Timed environment.. and I hope I can achieve it soon may in a month or two.. as my fundamental are already good especially in Quant.. even in verbal I know most of grammar ule I have literally byhearted Manhattan SC book itself.. also CR I like Powerscore and mostly get correct answer .. but again RC is BIG poblem.. But I am definately hopeful to overcome it soon!!!

Stacey Koprince wrote:I received a PM asking me to respond.

I'm sorry that you're having such a tough time with the verbal section! (But don't forget to congratulate yourself on your quant performance - you're doing very well there.)

I don't think you're crazy for wanting to try again. I do think you need to do something substantially different this time around. You ask whether a month is enough if you study 2-3 times a day. If you study in the same way you have been studying, then a year isn't going to be enough. The point is that what you have been doing hasn't been working for you - so we need to figure out another way.

Can you describe a typical study session for us? What do you do and how do you do it? (eg, I do a timed set of 30 SC questions in 40 minutes, and then I review the explanations for the ones I got wrong. Then I review the grammar rules in my grammar book for the ones I got wrong.) Give us much detail as possible about what you do and how you do it.

Can you also describe your timing during the test? Are you able to move steadily through the test, devoting roughly the right amount of time to each question? Or do you move too quickly or too slowly? If you move so quickly that you finish with more than 4 minutes left, how much time do you generally have left? If you move so slowly that you run out of time before finishing, on how many questions do you have to guess randomly? On how many do you have to work more quickly than you would like, even if you're not guessing randomly?

Can you give us any specific detail on your strengths and weaknesses within the verbal section? SC vs. CR vs. RC to start. And then, if possible, the specific types of grammar rules within SC and the different kinds of questions in CR and RC. I'm interested in both performance (percentage correct) and timing - something is still a weakness if you're getting a lot right but averaging 30 seconds more than you should be for that Q type. I'm also interested in the types of questions for which you struggle to recognize "What is this testing?" If it takes you 30+ seconds to figure out what a question sub-type is or what it is testing, tell me those categories too.

Thank you Stacey for your ressponse and encouragement,
And I know my Quant is good infact that is one stronger area, which can help me scoring 700+

Yes, I know that I need to do something seriously different from my last 3 attempt and I want your help in chalking out that plan from me. (and, I promise if you can help me or guide me then definately with your help I will beat GMAT this time as I am ready to give whatever it takes from me)

My typical study seesion is something like I used to study literaaly whenever I used to get free time after my work.
i.e. I have my working hour from 9 am to 5 pm, the I used to goto library and continously study from 6pm to 10pm ..I used to follow this schedule for atleast 3 month and then I took break of 2 week from office and used to study almost for whole day i.e. from morning 11am to night 11pm or may till morning hour till 3am or so (This was about my study hour)



I have started 4 month back with reading Manhattan SC, Sahil, Amateur notes and then solving OG11 SC in untimed manner and immediately after doing one SC question I used to look for its explaination and underline or take notes of anything important or unique or take away point from the answer or from any of its wrong option. This solving SC from OG11 and reading Manhattan SC, Sahil, Amateur notes took about 2-3 week.The notes or flash card I made from this exercise I used to revise during my last days of exam.

Then I done RC from LSAT official book. I mean I used to solve RC passage from LSAT book in untimed manner and then solve all question then read explecitly all explaination. Likewise I have completed around 30 passage but I must say it used to take me around 1 to 1 and 1/2 and hour for each passage. This went on for about 10 days. I could not make any particular notes of this exercise so there was nothing much for me to revise during my last days of exam.

Then I started reading Powerscore CR bible which took me about a week time and then I have solved CR from OG10 based on the classification of question provided by powerscore which take me another 1 week. So to complete this CR thing I took pricesely 2 week time. However, sine I have done CR question from OG11 and verbal review I found that most of the answer I can easily remembered and thus answered correctly so I didn't that exercise very useful and thus I could not take any notes or learning from the solving of this CR question. But I have made some notes from powerscore book, which I used to revise during my last days of exam.

Then after these study I gave my MGMAT (But I have already taken MGMAT 5 test during my 2nd attempt prep hence I felt I could remember the answer for few of the question. This gave me some advantage during my MGMAT test) and , during this MGMAT I scored between 650 to 700 for all the 6 test. I will PM u my userid and password of my MGMAT exam by which u can judge what kind of mistake I do. Alsofor first 4 test I have taken my AWA but for last 2 test I haven't.

After MGMAT I took one of the princeton and one Veritas free test I which I scored about 570 and 620 resp. But I observed that the Quant of these company test were at very silly level and thus I completed quant section 15 minute earlier. Moreover I didn't like the explaination of answer of each of question I got wrong and this discourage me to take more princeton test. Hence I thought I should only focus on MGMAT test, GMAT prep test.

After this 2 and 1/2 months of work on Verbal I start paying some attention toward Quant (I was aware that my Quant is strong as I scored 50 in Quant in my 2nd attmpt) Still I thought I should solve each and every problem given in all 5 Quant guide of Manhattan. This took say about 2-3 week of my time. But I solved all problem from all 5 Manhattan Quant guide and only DS problem from OG10 (not from OG11 as I aware I OG10 = OG11 + Quant + Verbal Review, hence I thought by completing OG10 will assure that I will be completing all the real retarted GMAT question)

Then I bought GMATFOCUS from GMAC and solved all 3 test in untimed environment in which I score
Test 1 = 47-51
Test 2 = 46-49
Test 3 = 40-46

Then finally I took Gmat Prep tests in which I scored as follow
GMATPrep 1 = 650
GMATPrep 2 = 700
GMATPrep 1 = 720 (Repeated)
GMATPrep 1 = 760 (Repeated)
GMATPrep 1 = 720 (Repeated)
GMATPrep 1 = 750 (Repeated)

I must say that during all these GMATprep I used to have advantage of seeing Verbal question for which answered I alresdy knew (As I have taken these prep dring my 1st and 2 dn attempt) But again when I -installed GMATprep freshly from new MBA.com site and took that test I score 680 only (Q48, V34) I saw all the verbal question were knew accept 2 RC passage for which answer were already I knew rest CR, SC were new.

In short I expirenced that in most of these GMAT prep I used to have unfair advantage of knowing most of verbal question.
Also, I have observed that never ever I have able to complete my test on time untill I used to get above advantage. I always rushed for atleast 5-7 question in Quant and atleast 8-11 question in Verbal.

Even in all my 3 attempt I have done that.. my time were always a problem but atleast in mylast attempt things were better than earlier 2 attempt.

Further, during my last week I thought I will go through only these GMATprep question and thus I started going though explaination for the write answer from BTG and manhattangmat/forum sites.
I also thought of doing all the question from GMATprep Verbal and GMATprep Quant index of Manhattangmat/forum this I thought will exposed me to as much as real GMAT question. but unfortunately I couldn't do that due to time constraint. but during my last week I solved again OG10 SC (all 268 question) with accuracy of 75% but again I must say I have remembered most of SC answer itself.

I also thought of doing all RC atleast from OG11 but after solving couple of passage I was observing that I am getting 100% write answer because I used to know those answer already. Hence after solving say @ 10-15 passage I thought as it was not very helpful exercise.

Finally in my last days of exam I have just revised my SC/CR notes, GMATprep most of the question, Manhattan SC book (New oct 2008 edition), AWA (I read all the sample response for 200 topic from ARCO book)

Now I thought I should do as follows:-

1)Solve all the official question only under the time limit of 75 min on everyday basis
2) Go though most of the GMATprep question posted on this and other forum so that I can understand different way of soving a single problem.
3) Analyzed after solving each and every RC/SC/CR question along with their option as y correct is correct and other are wrong
4) Read almost for an hour atleast .. stuff like FT etc
5) During this whole month I am planning to study 3 hour everyday + 1 hour of reading and then during weekend I will take mock test from MGMAT.
Also i will be solving 800 score test but only its verbal section

Yes, when I say all the official q's then I mean question from OG11, OG10, Verbal & Quant review, 9 paper test from GMAC, GMAT Focus q's, possibly dig out most of the GMATprep q's from this manhattangmat/forum and other forum as well.
And this whole month 80% of the time will be dedicated to verbal and 20% to quant

Also, I am playing with an idea to solve GMAT SETS 1 to 30, these are 30 GMAT paper test which are in line with real test and can be good practice for me as I will encounter mosttly unseen problem. Please advise on it. (I know solving 30 paper can take 1 month but I will do 1 paper everyday or so and can exceed my prep time fromm 1 month to 1 and 1/2 month)

But problem is I almost now know the answer of CR/RC/SC answer from OG11, OG10, Verbal & Quant review
Thus I am thinking what to do to check my actual abilities I have exhausted everything from GMAC and I want to keep myself away from all other material i.e. Kaplan, Princeton etc as there all are not true representative of the GMAT test. Thus I am confused now on what to prcticed? (Solving MGMAT could be good idea but I dont know how much helful it will be as I know almost most of the answer even there)

Also, I have never ever done any timed practice in sets except in my 1 st attempt prep as after that I remebered almost most of answer and I used to get those answere within a minute or two so there nothing timed prcticed left for me atleast on these official and real time problem.

I hope Stacey I have answered all of your question and you may have got the idea of my study hour/ habbit/ strategy etc.

Please guide me and advise me, where and what I am doing wrong.

(Sorry for such long post and also for my not so good structuring)

Regards,
Guru-G

ThankYou very much Stacey for your reply.
I have already started analyzing the questite one by one. But what thing I should take fist i.e. Should I again concentrate on
1) OG10 (Which has moe question than OG11),
2) GmatPrep Questions,
3) 9 Paper test from GMAC,
4) Gmat Focus and
5) GMAT SETs 1 to 30 paper...
I believe these all contain rela and retired GMAT questions. So doing these mateial again can help me or should I look for something else.

I am also planning to do some RC and CR fro LSAT book.
So will these plan be helpful for me.. added to these I may again analyze and work on MGMAT test again.

I know you have the time constraint but still if you can answer these question of mine then I will really appriciate it.

Thanks you vey much for all your Advise/ Suggestion/ Guidance Stacey

Regards,
Guru-G

beatthegmat wrote:Great advice, Stacey.

Focus a lot of your practice time on the OG problems--the best thing you can do for yourself is practicing on real GMAT questions during your prep!

Eric, Thanks for your advise!!!
But here is my BIG concern, I know most of the answer to question of OG10 and OG11 so while solving those problem since I already know the answer I mark it well within a minute hence that 'timed' scenario doesn't arise for me. Can u please advise on my this concern as I feel I am short of real time question?

beatthegmat wrote:Take a look at this post: https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmat-practic ... s-t68.html

This post outlines a method for practicing timing during your practice problem sets. Hopefully this helps!

Thanks Eric, I willl go through it

ngufo wrote:Hi Stacy,
All the questions you have asked are spot on. Guru-G, I was planning to ask you a subset of those questions myself this weekend. Bottom line, before you write the exam this time, what stacy says is correct - you need to figure out your weak area and fix. Otherwise writing the exam will yield the same results ....

Do reply to her questions - I will be reading your response as well!

TAke care,
-ngufo

Hello ngufo,

Can you please give me your valuable advise to me as to I am planning to start my prep from Tuseday 3rd Feb 2009 and going to devote daily @ 3hours mostly in verbal

Hello Stacey,

I am trying to incorporate all your advise this time. However, It wud be really very helpful and great if u can help me with the analysis of my MGMAT test. Atleast give a point to start and then I can take care of it myself. I know I may be bit demanding but I have this guts feeling that I can achieve what I want within a month wid all ur help and support.

Thanks you very much in advance!!!

Guru-G