Language of problems (trickiest wordings on GMAT)

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Note: I have no issues regarding the solutions to the problems, but only have doubts regarding the language.
Please dont be daunted by the length of the post, if you begin reading you shall find the questions are really regarding simple meaning issues. The questions given here are only to cite examples and not seeking solutions


If a math problem states " there are some boys in the class", then in a such a question we cant take the number of boys=0
The explanation I have received is that, since the question mentions there "are" so we have to take atleast one.


Now consider problem no.38 D.s pg 276 OG 12.
If p1 and p2 are the populations and r1 and r2 are the numbers of representatives of District 1 and District 2, respectively, the ratio of the population to the number of representatives is greater for which of the two districts ?
(1) p1 > p2
(2) r2 > r1
OA=C
note the problem states that r1 and r1 are "numbers" yet the problem does not consider that these "numbers" could be zero in which case the answer would have been E as division by zero is non defined, but this is not considered in the explanation

Consider problem26 of the diagnostic test.
what is the value of the integer p?
(1)Each of the integers 2, 3 and 5 is a factor of p
(2) Each of the integers 2, 5 and 7
OA=E, Explantion says these are factors of but it is NOT clear that these are the ONLY factors of p. (fair enough! )

However, I have encountered various problems where one option might read " the number X has 2 and 3 as factors" in which case the word "only" is not mentioned, yet we are to take that 2 and 3 are the only factors of x.
Another example of this case:
how many 3 digit numbers from numbers 2,3,4,5 are possible in which 2 digits are same? In this problem in order to get the solution we solve only for numbers that have " 2 digits as same". My contention is that since the word "only" was not mentioned "we have to considered the possiblity of all 3 digits are same as well". Other contend that since "atleast" is not mentioned we are to stick to the possiblity when only 2 digits are same.


Last and most surprising.

Question 161
Beginning in January of last year, Carl made deposits of $120 into his account on the 15th of each month for several consecutive months and then made withdrawals of $50 from the account on the 15th of each of the remaining months of last year. There were no other transactions in the account last year. If the closing balance of Carl's account for May of last year was $2,600, what was the range of the monthly closing balances of Carl's account last year?

(1) Last year the closing balance of Carl's account for April was less than $2,625.
(2) Last year the closing balance of Carl's account for June was less than $2,675.
OA=C

To rule out each statement individually,the O.G in the explanation of the quesiton takes the extreme case one in which the depositor has deposited only for one month and withdrawn for several months, and another where he deposits for several months but withdraws only in one month.
My question is, when the question clearly states that deposits have been for "several months"-plural how can the o.g cite the case of only one month-singular?


Your reply would help me take the quantum leap on my test.
Thanks!
Last edited by magnus opus on Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Ian Stewart » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:16 am
That's a long post, but I'll try to answer at least a few of your questions. First, I think some prep materials make too big a deal about the exceptional properties of the number zero. If a word problem on the GMAT talks about the 'representatives in a certain district', say, you can safely assume there are some representatives, and that you don't need to consider the possibility that there are no representatives at all. I'm not sure I've ever seen a real GMAT real-world word problem where the 'trap' was that some real world quantity could be equal to zero; that's something you only need to look out for on abstract algebra questions.

And Q26 in the diagnostic test in the OG is the only official divisibility question I've ever seen which does not declare in advance that letters represent positive integers. If you were to see a similar question on test day, the question would ask for "the value of positive integer p".
magnus opus wrote: However, I have encountered various problems where one option might read " the number X has 2 and 3 as factors" in which case the word "only" is not mentioned, yet we are to take that 2 and 3 are the only factors of x.
The statement "X has 2 and 3 as factors" certainly does *not* mean that 2 and 3 are the only factors of X. The number 60, for example, certainly has 2 and 3 as factors, but has other factors as well. There is no number in the world that has only 2 and 3 as factors, in fact; every number has 1 as a factor, for example, and if 2 and 3 are factors of a number, then 6 must be as well. You certainly could see a statement which tells you that 2 and 3 are the only *prime* factors of X, but that statement would need to use the word 'only' or some other wording to rule out the existence of other prime factors. Further, even knowing that 2 and 3 are the only prime factors of X still leaves us with many possible values of X; X could be 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, etc.
magnus opus wrote: how many 3 digit numbers from numbers 2,3,4,5 are possible in which 2 digits are same? In this problem in order to get the solution we solve only for numbers that have " 2 digits as same". My contention is that since the word "only" was not mentioned "we have to considered the possiblity of all 3 digits are same as well". Other contend that since "atleast" is not mentioned we are to stick to the possiblity when only 2 digits are same.
The wording of that question is ambiguous; are we to consider numbers like 222, 333, 444 and 555? You can't tell from the wording of the question, so you won't see a question like that on the GMAT - that must be a question from some prep company. If you want to see how an official question similar to this one would be worded, look at Q11 in the diagnostic test in OG12.
magnus opus wrote: Question 161
Beginning in January of last year, Carl made deposits of $120 into his account on the 15th of each month for several consecutive months and then made withdrawals of $50 from the account on the 15th of each of the remaining months of last year. There were no other transactions in the account last year. If the closing balance of Carl's account for May of last year was $2,600, what was the range of the monthly closing balances of Carl's account last year?

(1) Last year the closing balance of Carl's account for April was less than $2,625.
(2) Last year the closing balance of Carl's account for June was less than $2,675.
OA=C

To rule out each statement individually,the O.G in the explanation of the quesiton takes the extreme case one in which the depositor has deposited only for one month and withdrawn for several months, and another where he deposits for several months but withdraws only in one month.
My question is, when the question clearly states that deposits have been for "several months"-plural how can the o.g cite the case of only one month-singular?
That's not the only dodgy solution in the OG. If you look at the solution to Q128 in the DS section, for example, when discussing
Statement 1 they consider values of n which are expressly ruled out in the question (the question says that n > 13, whereas the solution considers the values n = 9 and n = 12). So you can't always trust the solutions in the OG, unfortunately. Many use inefficient approaches, or are unclearly worded, and a few even suffer from logical problems. I agree with you; if a question says that something happens for "several months", you can safely assume it happened for more than 1 month - in fact, you can probably assume it happened for more than 2 months. The OG solution is simply wrong there. Still, though they have not used a legitimate example, their answer is still correct.
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by magnus opus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:15 am
thanks for trying to help me out here.

-In reference to my question " X has 2 and 3 as factors" your explantion was correct on that grounds that having these two numbers as factors entails the possiblity of 6 and 1 as a factor.
Allow me to prephrase the question " X has 1 and 13 as factors" would we take that these two are the "only" factors.
-In your reply to my query regarding the possibility of zero, I agree with you on the front representatives cannot be zero if it is stated that there "are" some representatives. However, The question says "r1 and r2 are the NUMBERS of representatives". Which just could be a figure...such as 0.
-Lastly, I do NOT agree with you that O.G can screw up! I believe there must be some catch here, which I am hoping someone would point out.

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by lunarpower » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:42 am
huh?

why did you post all this stuff twice?

https://www.beatthegmat.com/language-of- ... tml#307314
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by magnus opus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:15 am
I did so, because in case i upset someone by breaking the status quo, by posting this on the S.C section, refraining them from replying, so I posted one here too.

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by Ian Stewart » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:37 am
magnus opus wrote: Allow me to prephrase the question " X has 1 and 13 as factors" would we take that these two are the "only" factors.
No, certainly not. If "X has 1 and 13 as factors", then X could be 13, but X could also be 26, or 169, or many other numbers.
magnus opus wrote: -In your reply to my query regarding the possibility of zero, I agree with you on the front representatives cannot be zero if it is stated that there "are" some representatives. However, The question says "r1 and r2 are the NUMBERS of representatives". Which just could be a figure...such as 0.
I don't have anything more to say about this; in a real world word problem, you can assume the number is nonzero on the GMAT.
magnus opus wrote: -Lastly, I do NOT agree with you that O.G can screw up! I believe there must be some catch here, which I am hoping someone would point out.
The OG clearly can 'screw up'. While I find the OG to be better edited than most (probably all, actually) other books in the GMAT market, there are still several errors in the book. I pointed out one in my post above, and you found one in the question about Carl. There are others. The questions themselves rarely contain errors (in OG12, I'm not aware of a single error among the Quant questions, though in the first printing of OG11 there were certainly some mistakes). The solutions, however, are clearly not written by the question designers, and do sometimes contain mistakes.
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by magnus opus » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:58 am
thanks for the insight Ian.

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by uwhusky » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:17 am
Please do not duplicate your question, or at least cite that the questions are duplicated for whatever reason in the beginning of the question, if you value the experts' time and insight. I know I do!
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by lunarpower » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:25 pm
Ian Stewart wrote:The OG clearly can 'screw up'. While I find the OG to be better edited than most (probably all, actually) other books in the GMAT market, there are still several errors in the book. I pointed out one in my post above, and you found one in the question about Carl. There are others. The questions themselves rarely contain errors (in OG12, I'm not aware of a single error among the Quant questions, though in the first printing of OG11 there were certainly some mistakes). The solutions, however, are clearly not written by the question designers, and do sometimes contain mistakes.
i would agree with this, and i would add the notion that the sentence correction answer keys are severely incomplete.
it's relatively rare to see an OG sentence correction answer explanation that is exhaustive, and many of the explanations leave out the most important (and sometimes easiest) errors in the choice(s) under discussion.
a few of them are outright wrong and/or contradictory to information given elsewhere in the official materials, too.

still (and sadly), as ian said, it's still better than most of the other stuff out there.
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by mymisc » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:24 am
Sorry I am going to throw in a little bit more twist onto this DS 161.

I answered this problem "correctly" (i.e. chose the AC that OG says correct) when under timing situation after I found out that the cutting-off month that Carl switches from deposit to withdrawal can be determined by the two statements.

While in review as I can fully examed the problem and tried to systematically explore my analysis, I noticed sth I don't feel very comfortable with. The problem doesn't say which date is the monthly closing date, while the OG explanation seems assume that the end of month is so. Can we make such assumption?

We don't need the monthly closing date to determine the cutting-off month (i.e Carl started to withdraw after the May's closing date, doesn't matter which day of the month). But I think we need to know the closing date (before or after 15th to determine whether to include the Dec's withdrawal into the final range (**).

So if you understand what I am saying here, do you still think we should ASSUME that the closing date is the end of each month, the problem really doesn't say so, and I think in the real world, the closing dates DO also vary for banks?

(**)On the other hand, I try to make sure that my understanding on "range" is correct: for example, the set {1, 4, 6} has a range of 1 to 6, can we also say it has a range of 0 to 10 (i.e larger than the inclusive ones)? If not, I really wonder what is the takeaway I should have from this DS 161 regarding this kind of 'assumption'? -- Yes, in my timed sesion, I spent most of my time on evaluating/discussing when the closing date is and whether/how that may impact the "switch month", but forgot that date may impact the Dec's withdrawal. So I accidently got this one "right" in OG's sense, but if I were one step further I would get this one "wrong"....

A side note, you may say 15th happens to be the middle of the month, and monthly closing date from common sense probably is somewhere after the mid of the month. But for people who are very familiar with the GMAT, do you think the situation I desc'd above is along the line of GMAT's spirit, or the tricky way that GMAT might be? What if the problems says on each "25th" instead of the "15th" that Carl deposits and withdraws?


Thanks!!!

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by Ian Stewart » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:24 am
mymisc wrote:
While in review as I can fully examed the problem and tried to systematically explore my analysis, I noticed sth I don't feel very comfortable with. The problem doesn't say which date is the monthly closing date, while the OG explanation seems assume that the end of month is so. Can we make such assumption?
Yes, by 'closing balance', they mean: 'balance at the end of the month'. I don't think it's possible to reasonably interpret 'closing balance' to mean a balance anywhere near the beginning of the month, and as long as you understand 'closing balance' to refer to a balance after the 15th, you'll get the right answer here.

mymisc wrote:
(**)On the other hand, I try to make sure that my understanding on "range" is correct: for example, the set {1, 4, 6} has a range of 1 to 6, can we also say it has a range of 0 to 10 (i.e larger than the inclusive ones)?
The range of a set is a single number; it is equal to the largest element minus the smallest element. The set {1, 4, 6} does not have a range of '1 to 6'; it has a range of 5, because 6-1 = 5. I often see the word 'range' misused in prep books (especially in discussions of standard deviation); some books use the word interchangeably with 'spread' or 'dispersion', which is not correct. In statistics, the word 'range' has one and only one meaning: it is the distance between the largest and smallest thing in a set, and if you see the word 'range' on the GMAT, that's what they mean.

mymisc wrote:
A side note, you may say 15th happens to be the middle of the month, and monthly closing date from common sense probably is somewhere after the mid of the month. But for people who are very familiar with the GMAT, do you think the situation I desc'd above is along the line of GMAT's spirit, or the tricky way that GMAT might be? What if the problems says on each "25th" instead of the "15th" that Carl deposits and withdraws?
While it's true that the GMAT can be a tricky test, the tricks are *never* based on exceptions, in word problems, that reasonable people would not agree exist. So, for example, if a question begins "Andrew drives from Albany to Richmond...", you can safely assume that Albany to Richmond are different places and that the distance between them is not zero - that will not be an exception the GMAT would try to 'trick' you with.

I do think test takers can sometimes 'outsmart' themselves by assuming the GMAT is trickier than it actually is. Most GMAT questions are actually quite straightforward, and when there are 'tricks', those are usually based on exceptional cases that the higher level test taker will notice, but that the lower level test taker might not - for example, considering negative values in an inequalities question. The wording of GMAT questions is always what I would call 'fair'; I've never seen an official question that I find open to different legitimate interpretations.
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by lunarpower » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:28 am
Ian Stewart wrote:I do think test takers can sometimes 'outsmart' themselves by assuming the GMAT is trickier than it actually is. Most GMAT questions are actually quite straightforward, and when there are 'tricks', those are usually based on exceptional cases that the higher level test taker will notice, but that the lower level test taker might not - for example, considering negative values in an inequalities question. The wording of GMAT questions is always what I would call 'fair'; I've never seen an official question that I find open to different legitimate interpretations.
i agree completely, and i would add that the gmat actually seems to go out of its way to avoid not only tricky wordings, but even tricky cases that are universally agreed upon.
for instance, it is a universally accepted fact that 1 is not a prime number, but i've never seen a problem (among the numerous problems testing small prime numbers) that had anything to do with the issue of whether 1 is prime.

even in cases that technically include such instances -- perhaps by neglect on the part of the question writers -- i've never seen a problem on which the inclusion/exclusion of such cases had any effect on the outcome of the problem.
for instance, there was a problem that someone found in OG (sorry, can't remember which) in which the case of 0 as a multiple of 4 was included. this case probably slipped through because the writers were a little careless -- BUT the problem WITHOUT that case had the same outcome.

so, i can feel pretty confident saying the following:
* use the "common sense interpretation" of any statement that you think is technically ambiguous;
* ignore non-standard cases of statements.
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by mymisc » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:50 pm
Thank you Ron and Ian!

This is the millionth time I forgot the concept of Range. Thanks!